Bree is available in PDF

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Stormcrow
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Re: Bree is available in PDF

Post by Stormcrow » Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:11 pm

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:14 pm
Similar criteria might allow the Shire to become a Sanctuary.
I don't think so. The Shire is like Rivendell in that it is protected by forces beyond the norm in Middle-earth. In this case the Rangers keep out the Shadow. This is unlike Bree, which is watched and protected by the Rangers, but as a crossroads anyone can go there. The Shadow moves in Bree. So to be truly protected, you have to be accepted by the important Bree-folk so they don't turn you out, AND you have to be known to the Rangers as an ally so they'll protect you. In the Shire the "turn you out" thing still applies, but not the need to apply to the Rangers for protection. Just by being in the Shire you're protected. You probably need a Patron in the Shire to make it a Sanctuary—a bunch of Outsiders can't just hang out at a hobbit inn without becoming unwanted—but otherwise there's no special criteria.

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Re: Bree is available in PDF

Post by Otaku-sempai » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:22 pm

A patron is never needed in order to open a sanctuary; say rather a sponsor who is a prominent individual in at least the relevant section of the Shire (the Thain, the Mayor of Michel Delving, the Master of Buckland, Farmer Maggot, etc.). The Rangers do maintain a Watch on the Shire (as you also acknowledge) and it is that Watch that keeps it safe. I would argue that the rule given in Bree concerning the Rangers might well also apply to the Shire, if only because it provides an opportunity for related heroic undertakings during a Fellowship phase.

If you doubt that the Shadow moves in the Shire, look at Ted Sandyman, Lotho Sackville-Baggins, and most of the Shirriffs added during the War of the RIng. Not every Hobbit is above corruption or even ordinarily a decent person. Here is my latest revision to my own guide to the Shire:
New Fellowship Phase Undertaking: Opening a Sanctuary in the Shire
(the Shire)

A key element ensuring the safety of the Shire (although most Hobbits have no knowledge of this) is the vigilance of the Rangers. In order to open the Shire as a sanctuary a company of heroes must have become aware of the watch of the Rangers, and earned their trust. The company must also have gained the trust of at least one important Shire personality (Mayor of Michel Delving, Thain, Master of Buckland). The heroes must also have distinguished themselves by having performed a great service to the Shire-folk; a deed that marks them as decent enough people in the eyes of the Shire-hobbits. Heroes receive a +1 bonus to their Tolerance rating with Shire-hobbits.

Individual locations within the Shire that might be opened as sanctuaries include:
  • Brandy Hall, with permission from the current Master of Buckland. Heroes receive a +1 bonus to their Tolerance rating with Bucklanders.
  • The Great Smials in Tookland, with the support of the Thain. Heroes receive a +1 bonus to their Tolerance rating with Tooklanders.
Last edited by Otaku-sempai on Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
DR. MANHATTAN: I'm leaving this galaxy for one less complicated.
OZYMANDIAS: But you'd regained interest in human life...
DR. MANHATTAN: Yes, I have. I think perhaps I'll create some. Goodbye, Adrian.

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Re: Bree is available in PDF

Post by Stormcrow » Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:29 pm

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:22 pm
If you doubt that the Shadow moves in the Shire, look at Ted Sandyman, Lotho Sackville-Baggins, and most of the Shirriffs added during the War of the RIng.
You mean when the Rangers disappeared and stopped protecting the Shire? Did I not specify that I was talking about when the Rangers were protecting the Shire, which is the vast majority of the time covered by The One Ring? Why yes, I did!

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Re: Bree is available in PDF

Post by Otaku-sempai » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:03 pm

Stormcrow wrote:
Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:29 pm
You mean when the Rangers disappeared and stopped protecting the Shire? Did I not specify that I was talking about when the Rangers were protecting the Shire, which is the vast majority of the time covered by The One Ring? Why yes, I did!
Point taken, though the potential is still there, especially with Saruman wondering why Gandalf spends so much time in the area and sending agents there both to snoop and to send back the finest pipeweed. Sméagol was once an ordinary Hobbit (or close enough), making me a bit skeptical about the claims of just how rare violent crime was in the Shire. I do believe it could have been rare; however, not a single hobbit-on-hobbit homicide in the entire history of the Shire in the Third Age? Maybe, but I suspect that someone, at some point, got away with murder!
DR. MANHATTAN: I'm leaving this galaxy for one less complicated.
OZYMANDIAS: But you'd regained interest in human life...
DR. MANHATTAN: Yes, I have. I think perhaps I'll create some. Goodbye, Adrian.

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Re: Bree is available in PDF

Post by Stormcrow » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:40 am

But Saruman couldn't GET his people to the Shire until the Rangers left it. When Frodo left the Shire, months before the Rangers did, the most that had happened was an increase in Outsiders being turned back at the borders by hobbits—and these were probably refugees, not spies.

Frodo claims that no hobbit of the Shire has ever killed another, and frankly I find that outrageously unbelievable. If no Shire hobbit has ever killed another, why is Sandyman so willing to casually suggest that Drogo and Primula Baggins murdered each other by drowning, and why don't the hobbits who think that suggestion is in poor taste think it far more shocking than they seem to?

But murder does not equal the Shadow. The Shadow is the influence of Sauron. People can be malicious and evil all on their own without any influence by Sauron. The Bree book tells us that Sanctuaries must be protected from the Shadow, not free of all evil. It's fairly remarkable that, given this new definition, Lake-town is automatically considered a Sanctuary.

The only influence the Shadow has in the Shire is through the Ring, and Bilbo then Frodo keep that secret, rarely used, and benignly used for the entire period covered by the game. It's not until the Nazgûl enter the Shire that it ceases to be worthy of being a Sanctuary.

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Re: Bree is available in PDF

Post by Otaku-sempai » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:56 am

Yes, I agree that any direct influence that Saruman could inflict on the Shire started after the the Dúnedain were forced to abandon their watch. He did have local agents in Bree and they might have begun laying the ground for the White Hand earlier.

Doesn't murder equal Shadow? Not THE Shadow, but a Loremaster would certainly hand out permanent Shadow for murder.
DR. MANHATTAN: I'm leaving this galaxy for one less complicated.
OZYMANDIAS: But you'd regained interest in human life...
DR. MANHATTAN: Yes, I have. I think perhaps I'll create some. Goodbye, Adrian.

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Re: Bree is available in PDF

Post by Terisonen » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:42 am

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:56 am
Yes, I agree that any direct influence that Saruman could inflict on the Shire started after the the Dúnedain were forced to abandon their watch. He did have local agents in Bree and they might have begun laying the ground for the White Hand earlier.

Doesn't murder equal Shadow? Not THE Shadow, but a Loremaster would certainly hand out permanent Shadow for murder.
It's worth 5 point of Shadow in RAW.
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Re: Bree is available in PDF

Post by Stormcrow » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:42 am

A Sanctuary, as explained in Bree, must be a bulwark against THE Shadow, not any source of Shadow Points.

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Re: Bree is available in PDF

Post by atgxtg » Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:45 am

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:56 am
Yes, I agree that any direct influence that Saruman could inflict on the Shire started after the the Dúnedain were forced to abandon their watch. He did have local agents in Bree and they might have begun laying the ground for the White Hand earlier.
I disagree. Saruman had already seemed to have made connections and opened up trade routes for things like Pipeweed. So I think Saruman probably started having some influence in the Shire before the Rangers went off to war, and probably had some agents there. It just wasn't all that obvious- much like his being corrupted.

And even without Ranger protection the Shire did remarkably well - with no attack from minion of Mordor. Remember, Saruon was not aware of the Shire or Hobbits until fairly late in the story - so the Shire was a fairly safe place simply by omission.

I think the biggest obstacle to a band of heroes making the Shire (or, more likely, a part of the Shire) into a Sanctuary would be to get on good enough terms with the Hobbits-or just be imposing enough so that they won't raise a fuss (like Gandalf or wandering Dwarves). A group that was fairly low keyed, and had some sort of understandable (to Hobbits) reason for going to the Shire, like say, Food, Wine and/or Pipeweed merchants, would probably find the task somewhat easier.

PolishWoodman
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Re: Bree is available in PDF

Post by PolishWoodman » Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:40 am

Hi guys!

i just want to say I'm hugely impressed by this suplement. it's one thing to explore "cool" regions and cultures and another to squeeze the essence from place like Bree and give it its own vibe, very true to Tolkien's spirit. That's a remarkable job and shows your true devotion and respect to MiddleEarth. i won't lie if i say i'm touched and moved ;)

i'm really starting to think about a big campaign about Shire & Bree, with much more "mundane" heroes and lower stakes (from the whole MiddleEearth point of few), where journey to the next village can be a real adventure and meeting with a stranger from afar may change your life and open your eyes.

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