are we waiting for other cultures

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Falenthal
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Re: are we waiting for other cultures

Post by Falenthal » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:34 am

I've always considered Dorwinrrim Mediterranean, more akin to spanish-italian cultures than to the Near East.
The wine culture leads me to this idea. Also, the fact that they live on the shores of an inland sea seems similar to the Mediterranean coast.

Any other conception about the Men of Dorwinion (dusky complexion, dancers and prince-traders, etc.) comes from the RPGs, not from Tolkien. It fits well, in my opinion, but we must always remember that Tokien never mentioned anything about the people from Dorwinion, other than they make the best wine, AFAIK. Not even that they were men. They could have been elves, for all we know.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: are we waiting for other cultures

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:25 am

guang wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:10 am
To the Northmen, the folk of Dorwinion seem exotic, with dusky complexions, deep, dark eyes, and clothes of brightly patterned cloth; ’tis no wonder that King Bard was so enchanted by his queen, Una.

So the Northmen are Anglo-Saxon, Germanic shading into Viking. Dunlendings are Celtic. Numenoreans are, well, whatever people from Atlantis are.
The Númenóreans were of the same stock as the rest of the Edain (though mixed with a strain of Elvish); the Northmen were at least related to them.
Dorwinion people are India? That's what came up when I googled dusky complexion. Or are they just generally Mediterranean, following the Germanic/Celtic/Mediterranean three way ethnic divide of Europe?
Possibly more Mediterranean in terms of TOR (in MERP the 'Dorwinrim' were described as "a mixture of Northman and Easterling stock"). As noted elsewhere, Tolkien did not even make it clear whether Dorwinion represented a Mannish culture. The name Dorwinion seems to be Sindarin which seems to suggest a connection to either the Elves or the Edain. This is reinforced by Tolkien's separate use of the name in the Quenta Silmarillion for a region of Tol Eressëa (also known for its wine).
Last edited by Otaku-sempai on Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Glorelendil
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Re: are we waiting for other cultures

Post by Glorelendil » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:20 pm

I'd be super-interested to see the Dorwinion "culture" (even if it's not a playable culture) developed.
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Otaku-sempai
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Re: are we waiting for other cultures

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:10 pm

Since this thread has been revived and now that the Adventurer's Companion is in print, here are some Heroic Cultures I hope to see in the future:
- Dwarves of Rhûn
- East Elves of Rhûn
- Men of Dorwinion
- Men of Eriador
- - Folk of the Frontier (Minhiriath; west of the Lune; Lone-lands; etc.)
- - Friend of Elves
- - The Nameless Wanderer*
- - Student of a Dwarven Smith
- - Wandering Peddler
- - Woodmen of Eryn Vorn
- Men of Gondor
- - Blood of the Elves
- - Heritage of the South (Southron-blooded)
- - Knight of Dol Amroth
- - Merchant Prince of Pelagir
- - Peasant hero
- - Ranger of Ithilien
- Snowmen of Forochel
- Woses

Advanced Culture:
- High Elves of the Grey Havens

Variants for Hobbits of the Shire:
- Fallohide
- Harfoot
- Stoor

* Background: The Nameless Wanderer: Your father was not content to live the life of a villager. He left Bree-land to find himself in the lands between the River Lune and the Blue Mountains, making his living by hunting and trapping, trading hides, furs and preserved meats to the Dwarves and to other frontiersmen. In time he took a wife and they started a family. It was a hard life, but a good one. However, wherever there are Men, there are others determined to take what they have built. Your family survived flood and famine, raiding wolves and hungry mountain cats. But other Men came, raiders who took and killed and burned what was left. You were left for dead but you survived. And someday you hope to make those men pay--those men who named themselves Rangers.

Note: This is my homage to Clint Eastwood's Man with No Name. The raiders, of course, were not really Rangers of the North, but a gang of thieves who had disguised themselves as Rangers to throw the blame for their crimes off of themselves.

EDIT: Edited to include Rangers of Ithilien as a background for Men of Gondor.
Last edited by Otaku-sempai on Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

Zulgolra
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Re: are we waiting for other cultures

Post by Zulgolra » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:20 am

I will probably be crucified for saying this, but I do not think, that the game realy needs more cultures at all. We have the main cultures now, all the ones we need for the main stories... The ones wich we saw and read about in the books we probably all love...
The cultures mentioned now, yes they were in there somewhere (more or less), but they werent that importent.

So, i would prefere to keep it manageable (every new culture needs new virtues and so on, this will get a mess...). And therefore I recommend to stop, before it gets from great to anything below it.
Let us have adventures, more books about regions and even some more orcs or other enemies, but not 15 other cultures (which would lead to license-problems certainly)...

guang
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Re: are we waiting for other cultures

Post by guang » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:07 am

I would rather see guidelines for creating your own new cultures, including things like being careful not to make a dwarf into a man. I hope they will fully flesh out the regions and cultural homelands of canon, and then give me the tools to go beyond that myself.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: are we waiting for other cultures

Post by Otaku-sempai » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:13 am

Zulgolra wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:20 am
I will probably be crucified for saying this, but I do not think, that the game realy needs more cultures at all. We have the main cultures now, all the ones we need for the main stories... The ones wich we saw and read about in the books we probably all love...
The cultures mentioned now, yes they were in there somewhere (more or less), but they werent that importent.
Actually, I mostly agree with you. There is very little material that is likely to fall under Cubicle 7's license that would cover regions east of Dorwinion or south of Umbar. Though there is a mountainous area adjacent to the Sea of Rhûn that might support a community of Dwarves and a forested region near the mouth of the River Running that might be home to East Elves. The problem is, how do we refer to any of the eastern Houses of the Dwarves without being able to reference The Peoples of Middle-earth? I don't think that we can. However, I do think we might see the Grey Havens as an Advanced Culture. While the Eriadorians might be iffy, I also believe that we are likely to get another Heroic Culture to round-out Gondor.
So, i would prefere to keep it manageable (every new culture needs new virtues and so on, this will get a mess...). And therefore I recommend to stop, before it gets from great to anything below it.
Let us have adventures, more books about regions and even some more orcs or other enemies, but not 15 other cultures (which would lead to license-problems certainly)...
Some guidance for Loremasters wanting to write up their own, custom Cultures might very well be a good idea. Something like that might be appropriate for a Loremaster's Companion.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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Re: are we waiting for other cultures

Post by Falenthal » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:04 am

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:13 am
However, I do think we might see the Grey Havens as an Advanced Culture. While the Eriadorians might be iffy, I also believe that we are likely to get another Heroic Culture to round-out Gondor.
I also think that these two are needed to round up the cultures of Western Middle-earth: Elves of the Grey Havens (they're a must, having the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains), and some kind of Southern/Coastal Gondorians that would include or comprehend the sailors of Pelargir and the knights of Dol Amroth.
As you see, both the Grey Haven Elves and the South Gondor Men could have some Virtues related to the special rules for Journeys on the sea.

A Ranger's of Ithilien variant of the Men of Gondor, and Dorwinrrim to add some exotic flavour (now that Una is introduced as a main character in the TOR chronology) seem to be very well liked by the public.
Dorwinrrim, in my opinion, might even be a simple Men of Lake-town variant, not necessarily a whole new Culture: change the Bog-stone Reward for a Bottle of Fine Wine, and the Bowman of the Guild Virtue for something else, and you have it.

Glorelendil
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Re: are we waiting for other cultures

Post by Glorelendil » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:19 pm

I want to play a Wose.
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Zulgolra
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Re: are we waiting for other cultures

Post by Zulgolra » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:47 pm

Some guidance for Loremasters wanting to write up their own, custom Cultures might very well be a good idea. Something like that might be appropriate for a Loremaster's Companion.
Yes, that might be a good idea. So everybody could create more cultures, if he wants to so, but "officially" no author of adventures and other sumplements has to think of 20 cultures with at least 4 Virtues each...

Although the Virtues in such a "toolbox" would probably be the most dificult design element...

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