Advancement points when Hope is used

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Falenthal
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Advancement points when Hope is used

Post by Falenthal » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:19 pm

I had the idea that no APs are gained if a skill check is succeeded thanks to the expenditure of Hope. But upon checking the rules, I can't find such mention.
Page 212 explains how APs are gained.

Maybe a very literal reading could point out that text says 'When a hero succeeds in a roll using a Common skill,...'. So, you have to succeed in your roll.

How do you handle it? Succeed via Hope expenditure qualifies for APs?

Glorelendil
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Re: Advancement points when Hope is used

Post by Glorelendil » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:22 pm

Falenthal wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:19 pm
I had the idea that no APs are gained if a skill check is succeeded thanks to the expenditure of Hope. But upon checking the rules, I can't find such mention.
Page 212 explains how APs are gained.

Maybe a very literal reading could point out that text says 'When a hero succeeds in a roll using a Common skill,...'. So, you have to succeed in your roll.

How do you handle it? Succeed via Hope expenditure qualifies for APs?
Yes. Use of Hope has no bearing.
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Stormcrow
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Re: Advancement points when Hope is used

Post by Stormcrow » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:34 pm

Maybe you're thinking of the fact that when you invoke a trait for an automatic action, you can't also invoke that trait for an advancement point.

Elmoth
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Re: Advancement points when Hope is used

Post by Elmoth » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:56 pm

As long as you roll (read: you do not use a Trait alone for an autosuccess) you get an Advancement Point. Spending Hope or not to suceed at the roll is irrelevant here.

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Falenthal
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Re: Advancement points when Hope is used

Post by Falenthal » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:31 pm

Thanks everyone!
One of those 'self-imagined' rules that I would have sworn to have read somewhere!

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Re: Advancement points when Hope is used

Post by jamesrbrown » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:48 am

Elmoth wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:56 pm
As long as you roll (read: you do not use a Trait alone for an autosuccess) you get an Advancement Point. Spending Hope or not to suceed at the roll is irrelevant here.
To be more specific, the rule is found on p. 194 of the core rules: "A player can be awarded 1 Advancement point when he uses a Common skill and succeeds."

Invoking a Trait for an automatic success is not using a Common skill to succeed; it is using a Trait to succeed.

Invoking a Trait after successfully making a Common skill roll grants 1 Advancement point because the Trait reinforces the successful skill use.

I used to be confused about this myself and I was generous in ruling that an automatic success from a Trait invocation earned the first Advancement point. But now I see the error in my thinking.

Hope is always used to invoke an Attribute bonus when using a Common skill. So, spending Hope can be strategic in gaining Advancement points. Spending Hope to "protect or favour" a Fellowship focus is even better, because it not only allows the player-hero to regain the spent Hope immediately (basically a free Attribute bonus), the player-hero possibly gains an Advancement point too if the circumstances are right.
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