What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

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Glorelendil
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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by Glorelendil » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:56 pm

Terisonen wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:19 pm

Think about were danger come from in Middle Earth: invariably from the East, the South and from below and mountain, too. And from within, I would add. Chasing Smugglers in Pelargir would be interesting, but you it must have something Tolkienesque in the flavor. Which I doubt there be many. Pelargir is a remote location, as is Dol Amroth, not in the very heart of the late Third Age. This sais, Cubicle7 as the very ability to surprise me for the best :D
That does make a lot of sense to me, and in some ways I think it's related to my neurosis about realism. There's a difference between roleplaying in the world created by Tolkien and roleplaying in stories that feel like they are part of the Tolkien mythos. Neither is right/wrong, and there's lots of overlap, but there is a difference.

So, yeah, chasing smugglers and righting wrongs isn't enough for me: it also has to tie back into the mythology. Meaning the struggle against the Shadow and the fading of Elves and magic (Art). I want to feel that by vanquishing the smugglers I'm somehow contributing to the larger story. That said, I trust C7 to find a way to do just that.
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Otaku-sempai
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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by Otaku-sempai » Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:11 pm

Terisonen wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:19 pm
Think about were danger come from in Middle Earth: invariably from the East, the South and from below and mountain, too. And from within, I would add. Chasing Smugglers in Pelargir would be interesting, but you it must have something Tolkienesque in the flavor. Which I doubt there be many. Pelargir is a remote location, as is Dol Amroth, not in the very heart of the late Third Age. This sais, Cubicle7 as the very ability to surprise me for the best :D
I would argue that Pelargir is actually in the very heart of Gondor; at the least it is the center of trade in the kingdom. Smugglers could be Corsairs or their agents bringing something dangerous into Gondor or sneaking someone or something valuable out of same. Pelargir would also be a good place for enemy spies to meet contacts in Gondor or for companions to connect with (supposedly) friendly agents. A company might also be part of a mission to sail south from Gondor to investigate rumors of a threat gathering in the harbor at the mouth of the River Harnen in Harondor. I'm sure I've only barely scratched the surface of the potential for adventure to be found in Pelargir.

Dol Amroth might best represent the traditions of Gondor-of-old, where learning was valued at least as much as strength and skill at arms.
Last edited by Otaku-sempai on Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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torus
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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by torus » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:34 am

Kurt wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:52 pm
I see the supplement products produced by Cubicle 7 in the same way. They are taking material from a plethora of books that I have little time to read and present it in a clear easy to digest manner that is relevant to roleplaying in Middle-earth using their game system.
OK, but the thing is they are not just doing that, they are also creating and devloping new material about places and people that are not found in those books. That was the point (in Terisonen's post) I was addressing. Let's take HotW as an example since it has been mentioned already. If it had restricted itself to locations visited in Tolkien there would be little or nothing about the Anduin vales beyond Beorn's house; little about Mirkwood beyond the Elven path and Thranduil's Halls; no Mountain Hall, nothing about the Woodmen, etc. Its use would be limited to adventures retreading the same path taken by Bilbo & co. I am quite happy that they took a different approach and made a more useful and interesting book, and I'm guessing they will continue to take this approach in future. :)

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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by torus » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:35 am

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 4:11 pm
Terisonen wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:19 pm
Think about were danger come from in Middle Earth: invariably from the East, the South and from below and mountain, too. And from within, I would add. Chasing Smugglers in Pelargir would be interesting, but you it must have something Tolkienesque in the flavor. Which I doubt there be many. Pelargir is a remote location, as is Dol Amroth, not in the very heart of the late Third Age. This sais, Cubicle7 as the very ability to surprise me for the best :D
I would argue that Pelargir is actually in the very heart of Gondor; at the least it is the center of trade in the kingdom. Smugglers could be Corsairs or their agents bringing something dangerous into Gondor or sneaking someone or something valuable out of same. Pelargir would also be a good place for enemy spies to meet contacts in Gondor or for companions to connect with (supposedly) friendly agents. A company might also be part of a mission to sail south from Gondor to investigate rumors of a threat gathering in the harbor at the mouth of the River Narnen in Harondor. I'm sure I've only barely scratched the surface of the potential for adventure to be found in Pelargir.

Dol Amroth might best represent the traditions of Gondor-of-old, where learning was valued at least as much as strength and skill at arms.
Agree 100%.

torus
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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by torus » Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:51 am

Glorelendil wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:56 pm
Terisonen wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:19 pm

Think about were danger come from in Middle Earth: invariably from the East, the South and from below and mountain, too. And from within, I would add. Chasing Smugglers in Pelargir would be interesting, but you it must have something Tolkienesque in the flavor. Which I doubt there be many. Pelargir is a remote location, as is Dol Amroth, not in the very heart of the late Third Age. This sais, Cubicle7 as the very ability to surprise me for the best :D
That does make a lot of sense to me, and in some ways I think it's related to my neurosis about realism. There's a difference between roleplaying in the world created by Tolkien and roleplaying in stories that feel like they are part of the Tolkien mythos. Neither is right/wrong, and there's lots of overlap, but there is a difference.

So, yeah, chasing smugglers and righting wrongs isn't enough for me: it also has to tie back into the mythology. Meaning the struggle against the Shadow and the fading of Elves and magic (Art). I want to feel that by vanquishing the smugglers I'm somehow contributing to the larger story. That said, I trust C7 to find a way to do just that.
I would hope they would continue to support both styles of play :) As someone who prefers a realistic approach, my only concern would be that we don;t only have plots involving Sauron's agents or the corrupting Shadow; that there also should be stories about the smaller events and common people of Middle-earth, civilised folk and bandits, their fortunes and misfortunes.

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Terisonen
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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by Terisonen » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:52 am

In a RPG game, you must have a tension to made play interesting. In ME, tension is provided by exposure of the work of the ennemy, be it sorcery, 'monster' or moral dilemna. Mirkwood and all Rhovanion is in direct exposure of that, as is Eastern Gondor. Old scars of past linger around Bree and in Arnor. Not in Dol Amroth or Pelargir. There is the occasional raider from Umbar coming, but nothing rooted in the very earth where you live. Pelargir is not a backward town, nor Dol Amroth, but I doubt their value as a room for adventure.
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Glorelendil
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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by Glorelendil » Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:44 pm

torus wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:51 am
I would hope they would continue to support both styles of play :) As someone who prefers a realistic approach, my only concern would be that we don;t only have plots involving Sauron's agents or the corrupting Shadow; that there also should be stories about the smaller events and common people of Middle-earth, civilised folk and bandits, their fortunes and misfortunes.
I hesitate to invoke this example, but the archetype for my ideal M-e adventure can be found in REH's Conan stories, which almost always start off with treasure and politics and other petty, human conflicts, and then WHAM it goes all Cthuhlu on you as some ancient demi-god shows up to spoil the party.

In M-e it doesn't have to be as overtly supernatural as that, but it's the unexpected plot twist where you realize that this, too, is really all a result of the Ainulindalë that sucks you (or me, anyway) into the setting.

So, yes, I agree with that last part that you wrote...as long as it turns out that it's a thread in the larger tapestry of Tolkien's themes. It's the denouement of realizing that the mundane is tied to the larger story, and that my Company is having an effect, however small, on that story, that gets my spine tingling.

I can kill rats in the basement in any setting, with any system. (And somehow it's still fun, too.)
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torus
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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by torus » Sun Feb 11, 2018 2:26 pm

Terisonen wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:52 am
In a RPG game, you must have a tension to made play interesting. In ME, tension is provided by exposure of the work of the ennemy, be it sorcery, 'monster' or moral dilemna. Mirkwood and all Rhovanion is in direct exposure of that, as is Eastern Gondor. Old scars of past linger around Bree and in Arnor. Not in Dol Amroth or Pelargir. There is the occasional raider from Umbar coming, but nothing rooted in the very earth where you live. Pelargir is not a backward town, nor Dol Amroth, but I doubt their value as a room for adventure.
If the hand of the enemy reaches even to the Shire then I see no reason why it couldn't be at work in Dol Amroth, Pelargir, Calembel or wherever you as LM choose. The settled heart of Gondor is somewhere the shadow can do much damage, if that is the theme you want to pursue. But I think we are going in circles, and clearly we have different ideas of what constitutes an adventure, for I feel no such constraints on what I choose to weave stories around.

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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by Majestic » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:07 pm

Glorelendil wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:44 pm
I can kill rats in the basement in any setting, with any system. (And somehow it's still fun, too.)
Just no killing rats in the basement of a brothel, though, right? ;)
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Glorelendil
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Re: What do you expect or want in a Gondor source book?

Post by Glorelendil » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:39 am

Majestic wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:07 pm
Glorelendil wrote:
Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:44 pm
I can kill rats in the basement in any setting, with any system. (And somehow it's still fun, too.)
Just no killing rats in the basement of a brothel, though, right? ;)
No I would be fine with that...except that there aren't any brothels in Middle Earth...
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