Introductions and Tolerance

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cuthalion
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by cuthalion » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:17 pm

SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:39 pm
Except by this logic it is also possible to reason that failed Insight rolls (for bonus success dice) also reduce Tolerance, which definitely seems inappropriate to me.
Seems like you got your answer--but just to circle back to this point: in case you might still be wondering about this, I wouldn't ever penalize a player for a preliminary roll. As far as I run things/understand the RAW, preliminary rolls for Travel/Encounters/Combat should only ever reward bonus success dice. They don't have any other purpose/effects.

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cuthalion
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by cuthalion » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:23 pm

I suppose maybe with the exception of eyes adding to Eye of Sauron counts. Maybe? Does anybody do this?

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Indur Dawndeath
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by Indur Dawndeath » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:29 am

cuthalion wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:23 pm
I suppose maybe with the exception of eyes adding to Eye of Sauron counts. Maybe? Does anybody do this?
Yes, I count eyes, but not while planning a journey in a safe place, and not during battle. So really only Insight for encounters in the Wild.
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Majestic
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by Majestic » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:27 pm

Yes, I counted Eyes rolled during Preliminary rolls (for Travel and Encounters).

As for the OP, I have always counted failures during the Introduction as counting towards the total. That said, I don't believe my players ever ended up failing an Encounter. Even the one in Tales from Wilderland with Raenar the dragon (I believe it has a Tolerance of 2!).
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SurrenderMonkey
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by SurrenderMonkey » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:14 pm

Majestic wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:27 pm
That said, I don't believe my players ever ended up failing an Encounter...
This seems to be a common observation, which suggests to me a weakness in the RAW. Why put rules in the way of play for something that generates no suspense or interest?

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Rich H
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by Rich H » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:28 pm

SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:14 pm
Majestic wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:27 pm
That said, I don't believe my players ever ended up failing an Encounter...
This seems to be a common observation, which suggests to me a weakness in the RAW. Why put rules in the way of play for something that generates no suspense or interest?
Outright failure (ie, using up Tolerance) then I have the same experience, however don't ignore the degrees of success and how those can critically influence how an adventure progresses. I do use my own encounter rules though that appear to produce better results for me.
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Stormcrow
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by Stormcrow » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:03 pm

SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:14 pm
Majestic wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:27 pm
That said, I don't believe my players ever ended up failing an Encounter...
This seems to be a common observation, which suggests to me a weakness in the RAW. Why put rules in the way of play for something that generates no suspense or interest?
Probably because the suspense or interest in encounters is not supposed to be a struggle to avoid completely pissing off the Loremaster character. That outcome represents the worst you can do.

I also suspect that Loremasters tend to reserve encounters for really important Loremaster characters, whereas the rules clearly mean for you to use them for most interactions where the company is trying to achieve a goal. In the section of the rules where Tolerance is explained, the examples have to do with "a group of wandering Elves," not a ruler or great figure. When you're talking with someone really important, you're more likely to be very careful in choosing your tasks and to use Hope. Thus, it's not surprising that when Loremasters restrict encounters to important Loremaster characters, the company rarely exceeds Tolerance.

So I don't think this is a weakness of the rules; I think it's a consequence of not applying the rules as they were intended.

SurrenderMonkey
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by SurrenderMonkey » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:14 pm

Rich H wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:28 pm
Outright failure (ie, using up Tolerance) then I have the same experience, however don't ignore the degrees of success and how those can critically influence how an adventure progresses.
Agreed. My concern has specifically to do with the rules for Tolerance and if they have any real bearing on play.

SurrenderMonkey
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by SurrenderMonkey » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:53 pm

Stormcrow wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:03 pm
So I don't think this is a weakness of the rules; I think it's a consequence of not applying the rules as they were intended.
You bring up some interesting points. Can I take it then that your own experiences contradict the general impression I've received from others (and my own limited experience) that Tolerance is not a meaningful aspect of the rules? Do your players concern themselves with its implications?

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Majestic
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by Majestic » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:09 pm

I should add that the one Encounter where the Tolerance was super low (not dictated by PC stats), there was a great deal of tension, as I warned the PCs going in that this one was WAY lower than usual. At least with that Encounter, things were tense and every roll was made with caution, especially after their first failure (where the next one meant they had to face an angry Dragon!)
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