Introductions and Tolerance

Adventure in the world of J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings. Learn more at our website: http://www.cubicle7.co.uk/our-games/the-one-ring/
SurrenderMonkey
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Introductions and Tolerance

Post by SurrenderMonkey » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:10 pm

For all the various discussion threads about Encounters, I have found it surprisingly difficult to find a straight-forward answer to this simple (and common) question:

Is it the official intention that failures during the Introduction phase of an encounter should count against Tolerance?

Dunkelbrink
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by Dunkelbrink » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:34 pm

Only Cubicle 7 can give an official answer on this, but I really don't see the need. Why shouldn't failures in Introduction step count towards Tolerance? The chapter describes that Encounters consist of two phases - INtroduction and Interaction. Tolerance is set for the Encounter, and:

"When the company fails a number of rolls in excess of the Tolerance rating set for the encounter, the meeting is essentially over: from that moment on, the players may not propose or attempt any further tasks".

Nowhere is it stated that the Introduction step is not part of the Encounter in this sense. I e the failures count according to RAW (which doesn't seem strange at all - if you screw up trying to present yourself your host would get impatient etc.).

That said, Encounters are an element that many players have house ruled since the mechanics aren't to their liking in some way or Another. But that's Another story.

SurrenderMonkey
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by SurrenderMonkey » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:22 pm

Dunkelbrink wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:34 pm
Only Cubicle 7 can give an official answer on this, but I really don't see the need. Why shouldn't failures in Introduction step count towards Tolerance?
I generally share your impression, but consider this quote from the main rulebook, which is the main source of my nagging doubt:
A failed Courtesy roll usually prevents a character from taking an active role in the encounter.
I guess it comes down to what you make here of the words active role. It seems at least possible to draw from them the implication that Introductions form a preliminary step to the "encounter proper," although I understand that is not necessarily the only interpretation (or even the most plausible one).

In any case, I can't see how an official clarification will do any harm.

Dunkelbrink
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by Dunkelbrink » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:47 pm

Sure, official clarifications are always nice. Though your quote only states an additional Interaction phase effect of a failed Courtesy roll in the Introduction phase - this effect does not in any way mean that the Tolerance of the Encounter is not also affected.

So, my point is, since it isn't mentioned that failures in the Introduction phase won't affect Tolerance there is no support for assuming that they don't. Simple enough. :)

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Timmity Took
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by Timmity Took » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:52 pm

It is a flexible mechanic. Sometimes it counts, sometimes not. Up to the LM. I have seen, heard and read actual plays that do it differently and some even mix it up, depending on the encounter and what they are going for.

SurrenderMonkey
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by SurrenderMonkey » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:39 pm

Dunkelbrink wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:47 pm
Though your quote only states an additional Interaction phase effect of a failed Courtesy roll in the Introduction phase - this effect does not in any way mean that the Tolerance of the Encounter is not also affected.
Except by this logic it is also possible to reason that failed Insight rolls (for bonus success dice) also reduce Tolerance, which definitely seems inappropriate to me.
So, my point is, since it isn't mentioned that failures in the Introduction phase won't affect Tolerance there is no support for assuming that they don't. Simple enough. :)
Again, I am inclined to agree with your interpretation, but the absence of explicit "support" doesn't entirely satisfy me. There is similarly no support for the idea that adversaries can make called shots without their being triggered by an EYE result, but the designer has apparently clarified that they can.

If you don't see the ambiguity here, no big deal. But I know I'm not the first person to desire a clarification.
Last edited by SurrenderMonkey on Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SurrenderMonkey
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by SurrenderMonkey » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:48 pm

And to be clear, I am perfectly comfortable making situational calls and house rules, but I definitely like to know a designer's intent whenever possible. That's all I'm after here.

fencingmonkey
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by fencingmonkey » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:17 pm

Personally, I always had failures during Introductions count against Tolerance. Even with this ruling, it was rare for my players to come anywhere near exhausting their Tolerance. The group did have a very solid complement of skills -- one Awe specialist, one Courtesy, one Riddle, etc. Typically they'd rush through getting the max successes (usually 7) to get whatever details they needed, then spam for advancement checks in skills like Song or Riddle.

My players have a lot of experience with Pendragon.

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Rich H
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by Rich H » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:49 pm

Failed introduction checks do count towards affecting Tolerance, yes.

I've written for C7, albeit in a minor capacity, and when designing an encounter for an adventure I took that into account when assessing the difficulties of such and chances of successful outcomes, although there was no realy exact science to me doing that! I do remember asking about this though and Andrew giving me a definite confirmation.

If you read the some of the skill usages under the Introduction section in the RAW it also strongly alludes to such - eg: A riddling spokesman must be wary, though, as a poor performance is sure to provoke mistrust in the opposing party, and compromise the outcome of the encounter.

I'd say its therefore a pretty safe ruling to adopt unless the text of an adventure specifically states otherwise.
TOR resources thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=62
TOR miniatures thread: viewtopic.php?t=885

Fellowship of the Free Tale of Years: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=8318

SurrenderMonkey
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Re: Introductions and Tolerance

Post by SurrenderMonkey » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:31 pm

Rich H wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:49 pm
Failed introduction checks do count towards affecting Tolerance, yes.

I've written for C7, albeit in a minor capacity...
All good enough for me -- thanks!!

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