New to AiME- Please help me understand lvl 3 "Rider" ability!

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Eldwyn
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New to AiME- Please help me understand lvl 3 "Rider" ability!

Post by Eldwyn » Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:10 pm

Okay, so the wording is "Beginning at 3rd level, if you are mounted, you deal an
extra 1d4 damage when you hit an unmounted Medium
or Small foe with a melee attack. If you take the Dash
action you may make an attack as a bonus action. "

The first sentence makes total sense. I don't get the 2nd sentence...

As I understand it, when a mount is under my control it acts on my turn. It can move and take one of 3 actions: Dash, Dodge, Disengage.

SO, does that ability mean
A- When I am mounted, if my mount dashes, I can attack as a bonus action in addition to my regular attack?
or
B- If I am dismounted and I dash, I can attack as a bonus action (just like the Charger feat)

Sorry, Mounted Combat in 5e is confusing and this feature is confusing me as well.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: New to AiME- Please help me understand lvl 3 "Rider" ability!

Post by Otaku-sempai » Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:12 pm

Okay, I'm not that familiar with the D&D 5e horsemanship rules. If you cannot normally both attack and perform a mounted dash in the same round then this allows you to do so. If you can normally perform both actions then this would grant you a bonus attack.
Controlling a Mount
While you’re mounted, you have two options. You can either control the mount or allow it to act independently. Intelligent creatures, such as dragons, act independently.

You can control a mount only if it has been trained to accept a rider. Domesticated horses, donkeys, and similar creatures are assumed to have such training. The initiative of a controlled mount changes to match yours when you mount it. It moves as you direct it, and it has only three action options: Dash, Disengage, and Dodge. A controlled mount can move and act even on the turn that you mount it.

An independent mount retains its place in the initiative order. Bearing a rider puts no restrictions on the actions the mount can take, and it moves and acts as it wishes. It might flee from combat, rush to attack and devour a badly injured foe, or otherwise act against your wishes.

In either case, if the mount provokes an opportunity attack while you’re on it, the attacker can target you or the mount.
I am going to speculate that you can allow a battle-trained mount to act independently, giving it the option to attack (bite, stomp, claw, etc.).

I have to say that a Rider of Rohan who is a Slayer/Rider with the Cultural Virtues: Born to the Saddle and King's Guard would be an absolute terror in mounted combat. :shock: I would think that your Loremaster would try to force you to fight on foot whenever possible! ;)
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Majestic
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Re: New to AiME- Please help me understand lvl 3 "Rider" ability!

Post by Majestic » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:06 pm

I believe it would be A, and not B.

On your turn, I think normally the rider would have the mount move on the same initiative. So the horse takes the Dash action, and you could then use your action to attack. This ability would allow you to then make an additional attack as a Bonus Action.
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Otaku-sempai
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Re: New to AiME- Please help me understand lvl 3 "Rider" ability!

Post by Otaku-sempai » Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:08 pm

Majestic's explanation makes sense to me.
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BookBarbarian
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Re: New to AiME- Please help me understand lvl 3 "Rider" ability!

Post by BookBarbarian » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:27 pm

I always interpreted the second part of the ability to assume non-mounted combat. Because I like the ability to have some utility for when the Rider is dismounted, like in a dungeon.

So I'm in the B camp I guess.

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Re: New to AiME- Please help me understand lvl 3 "Rider" ability!

Post by Otaku-sempai » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:49 pm

BookBarbarian wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:27 pm
I always interpreted the second part of the ability to assume non-mounted combat. Because I like the ability to have some utility for when the Rider is dismounted, like in a dungeon.

So I'm in the B camp I guess.
I'm pretty certain that that's not the intent since the ability Mounted Combat falls under the Slayer path of The Rider and specifies: "if you are mounted". If you get off your mount, you can't do it!

Let's dispense with munchkinny, shall we? :lol:
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ThrorII
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Re: New to AiME- Please help me understand lvl 3 "Rider" ability!

Post by ThrorII » Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:09 am

Eldwyn wrote:
Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:10 pm
If you take the Dash
action you may make an attack as a bonus action. "
Dash is a full round action, that doubles your movement rate. You do not normally get an attack if you dash. This rule allows you to Dash and take a bonus action to attack as well.

When mounted, your mount essentially becomes part of you for game mechanics purposes. So you can move (at the horses rate) and attack, or dash (but not attack).

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Re: New to AiME- Please help me understand lvl 3 "Rider" ability!

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:29 am

ThrorII wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:09 am
Dash is a full round action, that doubles your movement rate. You do not normally get an attack if you dash. This rule allows you to Dash and take a bonus action to attack as well.

When mounted, your mount essentially becomes part of you for game mechanics purposes. So you can move (at the horses rate) and attack, or dash (but not attack).
Sorry, but I disagree with this. My read is that the controlled mount's Dash does not prevent you from attacking. You can attack and have your mount dash away, or you can have your mount dash to an opponent so that you may attack. The mount's action is not yours; you can direct your mount to take an action and still take an action of your own. If this is correct then the Slayer/Rider under Mounted Combat gets both a normal attack and a bonus attack.
Last edited by Otaku-sempai on Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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zedturtle
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Re: New to AiME- Please help me understand lvl 3 "Rider" ability!

Post by zedturtle » Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:07 am

An uncontrolled mount acts on its own initiative count and is capable of moving and taking an action it desires (e.g. it could Attack or any other eligible action).

A controlled mount acts on the controller's initiative count. It is capable of moving but can only take certain actions (to wit: Dash, Disengage and Dodge).

A character has movement, an action and a possible bonus action. A mounted character declaring movement would likely be using half of their movement to dismount and then could use their remaining movement to do something else.

A character on a controlled mount has their movement (that they're likely not going to use), their action (e.g. Attack but it could be anything), possibly their bonus action, the mount's movement, and the mount's action.
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Eldwyn
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Re: New to AiME- Please help me understand lvl 3 "Rider" ability!

Post by Eldwyn » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:05 pm

Thanks so far everyone!

I believe Zedturtle has it right after I've read and re-read the rules around mounted combat. Which still leaves my question ambiguous. I am not *trying* to gain anything out of the rule one way or another, I just want to understand what it means.

If you interpret it RAW, I'm not sure the sentence is implying that the mounted condition still applies... especialy since as Zedturtle points out, while mounted YOU aren't making a Dash action... and if your horse makes a dash action, you'd still get to attack normally.

So either A) the horse makes a dash action which allows you to attack once as a regular attack and once as a bonus action... or B) the feature provides utility while dismounted.

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