Wardens and Shield Proficiency

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BookBarbarian
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Wardens and Shield Proficiency

Post by BookBarbarian » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:55 pm

So does the base Warden get Shield proficiency or just the Herald? it's listed as a proficiency for the former on pg 86 of the Player's Guide, but listed again as a bonus proficiency for the latter on pg 90.

I'd like to know since it changes the effectiveness of the Eaves of Mirkwood alternate rule Faithful Protector.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: Wardens and Shield Proficiency

Post by Otaku-sempai » Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:46 pm

EDIT: In lieu of the post below by ThrorII, I think that the original listing under Warden is wrong. I missed the table on page 62 that provides the base armour and weapon proficiencies for Warden:
Light armour,
simple weapons,
one-handed swords
There is no mention of shields proficiency.
Last edited by Otaku-sempai on Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:44 am, edited 3 times in total.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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ThrorII
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Re: Wardens and Shield Proficiency

Post by ThrorII » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:02 am

Well, the table on page 62 says light armor and no shields. The class description on page 86 says shields and light armor, the Herald archetype says upgrade to medium armor and shields.

In 5e, light armor does not come with shield proficiency.

So, given that 2 of the 3 entries say or strongly imply no shield for base Warden class, and base 5e armor rules say no shield with light armor proficiency, I'd say that the class description on page 86 is in error.

Makes sense, as well. The Herald is the more martial archetype, so the armor upgrade (with shield) is appropriate.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: Wardens and Shield Proficiency

Post by Otaku-sempai » Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:38 am

ThrorII wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:02 am
Well, the table on page 62 says light armor and no shields. The class description on page 86 says shields and light armor, the Herald archetype says upgrade to medium armor and shields.
Good catch on the table; I completely over-looked that. I agree in that case that the base armour proficiency for Shields listed under the Warden class is probably in error.
In 5e, light armor does not come with shield proficiency.
Well, as those are two, separate proficiencies within the same category, I'm not sure that this is an issue. However, the point would seem to be moot.
Last edited by Otaku-sempai on Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:18 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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zedturtle
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Re: Wardens and Shield Proficiency

Post by zedturtle » Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:59 am

If you wanted to count instances, don't forget page 207. :)

But, I'll say two words regarding Faithful Protector: Barding Swordmaster.
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Soninlawofelfland
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Re: Wardens and Shield Proficiency

Post by Soninlawofelfland » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:59 am

However, without the general shield proficiency for wardens the bounder archetype makes absolutely no sense. If you assume the class description on page 86 is in error, then there must be another error with the bounder's description. Bounders may not be martial in offense, but they need an AC bump to do what they do.

BookBarbarian
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Re: Wardens and Shield Proficiency

Post by BookBarbarian » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:52 pm

zedturtle wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:59 am
If you wanted to count instances, don't forget page 207. :)

But, I'll say two words regarding Faithful Protector: Barding Swordmaster.
I am not a fan of Barding Swordmaster. Having a character from one culture that is able to get +2 to+6 AC more than a character of another culture does not appeal to me.

I run the version of the virtue that was present in V1 of the Playe'rs Guide.

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ThrorII
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Re: Wardens and Shield Proficiency

Post by ThrorII » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:41 pm

BookBarbarian wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:52 pm

I am not a fan of Barding Swordmaster. Having a character from one culture that is able to get +2 to+6 AC more than a character of another culture does not appeal to me.

I run the version of the virtue that was present in V1 of the Playe'rs Guide.
I've actually decided to treat it like the defensive duelist feat, +proficiency to AC as a Reaction (so one attack per round).

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ThrorII
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Re: Wardens and Shield Proficiency

Post by ThrorII » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:44 pm

zedturtle wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:59 am
If you wanted to count instances, don't forget page 207. :)

But, I'll say two words regarding Faithful Protector: Barding Swordmaster.
Well, the pre-gens at the end of the book are a mess all around. They didn't correctly treat the Corruption saves, so I'm not surprised they messed up shields.

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ThrorII
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Re: Wardens and Shield Proficiency

Post by ThrorII » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:51 pm

Soninlawofelfland wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:59 am
However, without the general shield proficiency for wardens the bounder archetype makes absolutely no sense. If you assume the class description on page 86 is in error, then there must be another error with the bounder's description. Bounders may not be martial in offense, but they need an AC bump to do what they do.
They don't NEED a bump in AC. If the Bounder's 'charge' had been given a 'Warden Die', the Bounder can add that to his AC. Also, they gain temporary hit points as their next archetype feature, which would help mitigate the hit.

Finally, the bounder is clearly inspired by the Shire bounders. The Bounder text even mentions 'simple folk'. Shields do not seem appropriate.

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