*New LM* XP Rewards and Combat Scaling

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BookBarbarian
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Re: *New LM* XP Rewards and Combat Scaling

Post by BookBarbarian » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:39 pm

zedturtle wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:05 pm
See page 4 of Wilderland Adventures... "A suggested level range is given for each adventure. These suggestions are based on a company with four members of varied skills."
I plan on just using those suggestions as a milestone based system for the adventure. XP is a great tool for a Loremaster, but I find it to be too fiddly for my personal tastes.

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ThrorII
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Re: *New LM* XP Rewards and Combat Scaling

Post by ThrorII » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:36 am

Personally, I'd just go with a form of session based advancement (see the 5e DMG). Basically, as written, you gain 1 level (going to lvl 2) after 1 session, gain a second level (going to level 3) after the 2nd session, then one level every 2 sessions thereafter. You reach level 10 at 16 sessions, and level 15 at 25 sessions.

I'm ruling that Humans, Dwarves, and Hobbits cannot advance beyond 16th level. Levels 17-20 are for Elves. I don't see levels over 16 being fit for mortals.

If you want to be extra hard, replace 'session' with 'adventure'. That way you need 16 adventures (each adventure being 2-3 sessions) to reach 10th level. Given an average of 1-2 adventures per year, it would take an average of 12 years of game time to reach level 10, and an average of 20 years to reach level 16. Which seems about right if you feel level 16 is the max for humans.
Last edited by ThrorII on Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MrUkpyr
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Re: *New LM* XP Rewards and Combat Scaling

Post by MrUkpyr » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:28 pm

ThrorII wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:36 am
SNIPPAGE
I'm ruling that Humans, Dwarves, and Hobbits cannot advance beyond 15th level. Levels 16-20 are for Elves. I don't see levels over 15 being fit for mortals.
I would highly disagree with this.

Humans have a *fire in the belly* that many Elves lack. Elves can put a project off for 2 centuries, and come back to it, but humans know that they don't have the luxury of extra time to ignore something for more than a few years before they must either do it or it is too late. This drives Humans to achieve more faster.

While it is true that the normal Human or Hobbit or Dwarf might not advance past 15th, we are talking about *heroic adventurers* (the PCs), and they should not have a glass ceiling placed over them.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: *New LM* XP Rewards and Combat Scaling

Post by Otaku-sempai » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:56 pm

MrUkpyr wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:28 pm
I would highly disagree with this.

Humans have a *fire in the belly* that many Elves lack. Elves can put a project off for 2 centuries, and come back to it, but humans know that they don't have the luxury of extra time to ignore something for more than a few years before they must either do it or it is too late. This drives Humans to achieve more faster.
I second this. I thought I'd seen the last of an attitude favoring racial level restrictions with the end of AD&D. Now it seems hopelessly dated.
DR. MANHATTAN: I'm leaving this galaxy for one less complicated.
OZYMANDIAS: But you'd regained interest in human life...
DR. MANHATTAN: Yes, I have. I think perhaps I'll create some. Goodbye, Adrian.

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Majestic
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Re: *New LM* XP Rewards and Combat Scaling

Post by Majestic » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:16 pm

ThrorII wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:36 am
Personally, I'd just go with a form of session based advancement (see the 5e DMG). Basically, as written, you gain 1 level (going to lvl 2) after 1 session, gain a second level (going to level 3) after the 2nd session, then one level every 2 sessions thereafter. You reach level 10 at 16 sessions, and level 15 at 25 sessions.

I'm ruling that Humans, Dwarves, and Hobbits cannot advance beyond 15th level. Levels 16-20 are for Elves. I don't see levels over 15 being fit for mortals.

If you want to be extra hard, replace 'session' with 'adventure'. That way you need 16 adventures (each adventure being 2-3 sessions) to reach 10th level. Given an average of 1-2 adventures per year, it would take an average of 12 years of game time to reach level 10, and an average of 20 years to reach level 15. Which seems about right if you feel level 15 is the max for humans.
Just looking at your formulas and comparing it to two of my games, here's what numbers we would have:

My weekly D&D game with my kids (and some other friends) has a large group (as many as 8 players some times) so they tend to get less XP (having to divide everything up so much). So in our game so far we've had 36 sessions, and right now every character is at Level 7 (using the 5E rules as written). Using your first formula, those same 7th level adventurers would be level 20 (they would have hit 15th a while ago).

With that same group using the 'extra hard' formula, they'd be about 10th level, which is still quite a bit stronger than they actually are.

Using that same first formula for my TOR/AME group, the ones who have been there the entire campaign (two of the Elves), would now be Level 21 (I converted them myself a while back and those two are Level 18 and 16 in AME). Another Elf would be between 14 and 15 (I made him 12th Level) and yet another Elf would be 11th (I made her 9th). Our Hobbit would be between 9th and 10th (I converted him and came up with 7th).

Using the 'hard' method ends up making most of them actually a little under where I placed them. The 16th Level Elf would be 14th, and the 18th Level one would be 16th. I think the first High Elf would be 10th instead of 12, and the other High Elf would be 8th instead of 9th. The Hobbit would be exactly the same as where I converted him (7th Level) using this method.
Adventure Summaries of our campaign, currently playing through The Darkening of Mirkwood

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Majestic
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Re: *New LM* XP Rewards and Combat Scaling

Post by Majestic » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:26 pm

zedturtle wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:05 pm
Majestic wrote:
Fri Jul 28, 2017 6:16 pm
I think for Wilderland Adventures the work's already been done for you, provided you've got a moderately sized party (at least three adventurers).
See page 4 of Wilderland Adventures... "A suggested level range is given for each adventure. These suggestions are based on a company with four members of varied skills."
Thanks, zed. I hadn't actually read through it yet, as I only had the PDF (my hard copy actually just arrived today!). I figured they'd give something like that, as the standard Challenge Rating in D&D is based on a party of four.

GMs will obviously need to adjust things if their party of adventurers is much bigger of smaller than that.
Adventure Summaries of our campaign, currently playing through The Darkening of Mirkwood

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ThrorII
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Re: *New LM* XP Rewards and Combat Scaling

Post by ThrorII » Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:51 pm

MrUkpyr wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:28 pm
ThrorII wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:36 am
SNIPPAGE
I would highly disagree with this.
That is entirely your right. Each table is different. Some people will import D&D spells as well. I just feel that 16th is the cap for mortals. I'm not alone in this, T.S. Luikart also shares this view with me:
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=8222&start=10#p64239

MrUkpyr
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Re: *New LM* XP Rewards and Combat Scaling

Post by MrUkpyr » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:18 pm

ThrorII wrote:
Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:51 pm
That is entirely your right. Each table is different. Some people will import D&D spells as well. I just feel that 16th is the cap for mortals. I'm not alone in this, T.S. Luikart also shares this view with me:
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=8222&start=10#p64239
As many a person has said - Your Middle Earth May Vary.
Which is what makes gaming so much blinking fun! If everyone played the same game in exactly the same manner, it would be simply boring. :D

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steerpike65
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Re: *New LM* XP Rewards and Combat Scaling

Post by steerpike65 » Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:08 am

Yep. Exactly. I dont use XP and completely handwave the issue. For Wilderland Adventures my players will be 1st level for the first adventure, 2nd level for the second etc. I'll just level them up after each adventure.

Sacrilege to many. Suits me fine.
“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence, and then success is sure.” – Mark Twain

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