Why does the Scholar suck so bad

The place for discussion of Cubicle 7 and Sophisticated Games' "Adventures in Middle-earth" OGL setting.
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Majestic
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by Majestic » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:02 pm

I'll just add that my group is made up of mostly Scholars, and we haven't had any problems with them in combat. They have powerful weapons and armour, and are quite experienced (some having multi-classed as well), so that does factor into it.

A good general rule of thumb is to treat those 'strangers on the internet' just as you would treat people in real life. Just because you might not ever meet them in person is no reason to be rude or disrespectful. Of course, as you pointed out, a lot of the non-verbal social cues (like a laugh) can be lost in the translation. Just because you seem to have the personality of a bull in a china shop (that's the impression I get based on what you wrote), doesn't give you the permission to trample over other people's feelings or opinions, or to denigrate other play styles that don't match your own.

I've seen many players over the years that very much enjoy "playing the heal-bot". I've also met the storytelling types that prefer to play characters that are weaker (in combat) that others, and they seem to enjoy this, as long as they're good at other things.
Adventure Summaries of our campaign, currently playing through The Darkening of Mirkwood

BookBarbarian
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by BookBarbarian » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:05 pm

I'll echo some of the other comments. Strong language isn't going to get you very far. You might want to consider editing your post.

For my game I do plan on giving a little more "oomph" to the Scholar and Warden classes.

For the Warden, I'm giving them the option of using a Wardens Gift Die, to fuel a Maneuver like the 5e Battlemaster sublcass's Superiority Die. I'll break the full list of Maneuvers into 3 so each Warden subclass has it's own unique options.

For the Scholar, I'll probably leave Master Healer alone, since it can already pump out a lot of healing. For the Master Scholar I'll probably give it some form of limited spellcasting. Possibly only as Rituals. Or maybe as an action, but costing inspiration or Hit Dice. I'll try picking a few low level spells from the list in the AiME LMG, and giving them more mundane descriptions.

For example,perhaps our Scholar can't summon flames, but maybe he can manipulate existing flames, so he may need a Lit Torch as a spell ingredient for Sunbeam (probably a bad example, but I'm spit-balling a bit here.)

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Tuska
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by Tuska » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:49 pm

I play a Scholar in our game of AIME and it is a great class, the insta heals and the ability to tend injuries for 10 minutes has kept our group up in many dangerous encounters with orcs, evil men and fell spirits.

It really stood out for me as a class and my character rushes into the front line alongside the rest of our company of Bree based heroes.

JVV
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by JVV » Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:04 pm

Majestic wrote:
Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:02 pm
A good general rule of thumb is to treat those 'strangers on the internet' just as you would treat people in real life. Just because you might not ever meet them in person is no reason to be rude or disrespectful. Of course, as you pointed out, a lot of the non-verbal social cues (like a laugh) can be lost in the translation. Just because you seem to have the personality of a bull in a china shop (that's the impression I get based on what you wrote), doesn't give you the permission to trample over other people's feelings or opinions, or to denigrate other play styles that don't match your own.
I echo this. The original poster might say he "speaks his mind" but it's an essential life skill to learn how not to say everything that comes into one's head, even if there are non-verbals that suggest the harsh language doesn't actually mean everything said. I get how hard this is from my own personal experience, but there it is. A well-curated forum will cull people who post like that routinely, too, because to do otherwise is to turn it into the equivalent of the YouTube comment section.

M Luwin
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by M Luwin » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:13 pm

In the immortal words of that esteem eastern philosopher The Dude...

That's like your opinion man!

Dude out!

cdj0902
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by cdj0902 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:05 am

M Luwin wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:13 pm
In the immortal words of that esteem eastern philosopher The Dude...

That's like your opinion man!

Dude out!
LOL. Agreed. But hey, since opinions are flying I saw a few things in his last post that seem silly.


"If you don't understand why mechanically that is a terrible design then you aren't a D&D player."

This comment is ridiculous. Who are you to decide who is and isn't a D&D player? But more to the point: No, sir, this ISN'T D&D. It's Adventures in Middle Earth, which uses the 5E OGL as a base ruleset. Let that distinction sink in. Being OGL-based doesn't make it D&D, nor does it make it beholden to the expectations and flavor of the core game. Core D&D has it's 3 tiers (combat, exploration, social) but in reality 95% of the core ruleset focuses on the combat tier. AiME redistributes some of that imbalance back into the exploration and social tiers, with classes that , yep, might not be great in the combat tier (at least comparatively). How "Middle Earth" of the designers to do that...

"This product is supposed to be functioning as a 5e D&D game, which means it needs to work: ON THOSE TERMS."

False. See my previous paragraph. This game is not beholden to whatever your expectations are for the "correct" way a D&D game should be designed. Stop calling it D&D. I think once you get over that hang-up and understand that not all classes are going to be uber in the combat tier, ie more akin to D&D 5E core classes, your blood pressure may come down a bit.

But perhaps more importantly: if your player isn't happy with the scholar you, as LM, should consider the part YOU might be playing in their dissatisfaction. Make it clear that if they want to play a healer in the vein of the D&D core rules this class wouldn't do that for them and that, compared to the other classes, they are extremely weak in combat. If they sat down expecting to play a D&D cleric in Middle Earth OF COURSE they're going to be dissatisfied. Furthermore, since they seem to be sticking with it, could you possibly be doing a poor job of giving his character interesting things to do? Obviously, the way the class is built simply being a heal-bot isn't going to be that interesting over the long haul, and if that doesn't align with their expectations it's a problem. SO GIVE HIM/HER OTHER INTERESTING THINGS TO DO that make the class shine. Those things most likely (read: they absolutely do) fall outside the combat tier. If they, however, are just bored with the class' combat potential AND you are doing a decent job of giving their PC a chance to shine in the other two tiers of the game, then perhaps it's just a bad marriage of player and PC. I'm sorry, but when a player at your table is miserable the LM's must take responsibility for #1) letting it get to that point and #2) not correcting the situation.

MrUkpyr
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by MrUkpyr » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:21 pm

The scholar in my game is the main healer (of course), but he is also the "ranged fighter". When the others are charging into battle, he is back a bit blasting the baddies with arrows.

And, as he has a decent DEX, he is pretty good with that bow!
He also has a pretty good STR, so his thrown weapons aren't too bad.

Since none of the cultural virtues would negate a "negative fire into combat modifier", and AiME does not specifically state that there is such a modifier, I also removed said modifier to give the Scholar a better chance of being able to fire into combat. Of course, I also removed the modifier for when the baddies fire at the PCs who are in combat :twisted: .
Last edited by MrUkpyr on Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rich H
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by Rich H » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:42 pm

Looks like the OP has vanished... Like Bilbo at his party.
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Otaku-sempai
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:12 pm

Rich H wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:42 pm
Looks like the OP has vanished... Like Bilbo at his party.
Not only did Baronvonheil vanish; he took all of his posts with him! There's naught left but his footprint in the replies.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

JimmyTheCannon
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by JimmyTheCannon » Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:49 am

MrUkpyr wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:21 pm
Since none of the cultural virtues would negate a "negative fire into combat modifier", and AiME does not specifically state that there is such a modifier, I also removed said modifier to give the Scholar a better chance of being able to fire into combat. Of course, I also removed the modifier for when the baddies fire at the PCs who are in combat :twisted: .
If you mean the old 3.0/3.5 penalty for attacking a character that is in melee with another character - that doesn't exist in 5e. Cover is a thing but a penalty for firing into melee is not.

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