Why does the Scholar suck so bad

The place for discussion of Cubicle 7 and Sophisticated Games' "Adventures in Middle-earth" OGL setting.
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zedturtle
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by zedturtle » Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:40 pm

The rules of Adventures in Middle-earth are carefully crafted to allow a variety of different play-styles to find traction in a great variety of groups.

Saying that you don't like the Scholar as it's presented in the Player's Guide is acceptable, as is proposing new ideas to help make the class work with your play-style.

Calling other players "liars" or "bs method actor wannabes" is not cool. As is denigrating a valid role (I've had several players over the years enjoy being the hero who patched others up, often with wry commentary along the way).

Please take a look at this thread.
Jacob Rodgers, occasional nitwit.

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Michebugio
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by Michebugio » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:51 am

Baronvonheil wrote:
Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:27 pm
[...]

We forced the last person to make a character in our group to make a scholar. No one wanted to play one. It is really pointless to limit the combat capabilities of non spell-casting classes so hard. Not having a scholar was not an option, cause duh. This means we had to force someone we like to play the crappiest class in the history of crappy classes.

Seriously this needs fixin'.
So, first of all, I second everything that zedturtle said: please read the forum rules. I understand that you're not happy with this class (I am not either), but you're still commenting the fruit of the creative work of many people, and probably some more politeness is in order (trust me, I've been reprimanded for much less).

Second, I think that the Scholar is fine as it is if you want a very good healer in the Company that doesn't do much else in combat. For my play style, I wanted less healing and more versatility from this class, so I've developed an Alternate Scholar that you may be interested in. It's based on the Bard from D&D 5e PHB, which makes it very similar to the Warden so you may want not to use my version of the Scholar if there's already a Warden in your group. However, I think it's probably the kind of Scholar you seem to want: limited, out-of-combat healing capabilities (so not a heal bot), many abilities that can influence both combat, interaction and exploration, and skill mastery comparable, if not better, to the Treasure Hunter.
It's also a work in progress, so any contribution would be nice!

Finally, I once again urge you to read the forum rules, so you can fully enjoy this fine community.

M Luwin
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by M Luwin » Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:26 pm

Maybe read Dale Carnegie's How To Win Friends And Influence People while you're at it.

Dirk89stensrud
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by Dirk89stensrud » Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:35 pm

One alternative is to not focus on being a scholar but taking just one-three levels in it. A wanderer or warden who has a couple Scholar levels should keep your healing relatively limited (which sounds like it's what you want) while also allowing everyone in your group to be able to fight.

M Luwin
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by M Luwin » Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:45 pm

Okay fair enough. It was just advice take or leave it. In your own words, I can't get worked up if you don't. However, if you really want someone to hear or read what your saying... coming off as a "dick" might not be the best way to get your point across. Just saying.

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zedturtle
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by zedturtle » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:32 pm

Baronvonheil wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:14 pm
Ok. I come off as a dick on the internet. Not new experience for me, I write the way I speak, but in person I can blunt my bellicose word choice with wry laughs and smiles. So if I offended I am kinda sorry but not that sorry. I just can't get too worked up my someone on the internet who I don't know taking umbrage with my hyper agressive voice. I would feel terrible and immediately apologize face to face, but as we shall likely never meet I have zero cares to give. Ok, maybe not zero, but damn few.
Baronvonheil, please know that I am a very laid back person. Keep that in mind. Also, it is extremely important to understand that it's perfectly okay to say things like "I don't like the Scholar" and "That class is totally useless in my opinion". That's not the problem here.

The people who you are insulting are real people. Just because you've never shaken their hands, or looked at pictures of their kids or traded war stories about crazy game sessions doesn't mean that I haven't. Online interaction is a way of life these days, and how you present yourself will have serious impacts on how you are perceived. I often find myself double-checking and rereading stuff, and sometimes I still manage to come off wrong and have to apologize for it afterwards.

We often say that we are all guests in C7's house. Let's extend the metaphor just a little bit and say that Dom has converted his very nice house into a small art gallery. And he's hung some pieces up... things that he and Jon like. You can come to the art gallery and say that you don't like a painting. We can even have a productive conversation about the painting and criticism of it. But if you start insulting the painter then we have a problem. Especially when said painter is in the room, busy talking to someone else about another piece that they might want to buy. Or when said painter is in the studio, their hands full of paintbrushes and palettes and to interrupt themselves and defend themselves would be a not insignificant loss of productivity.

So here I am, asking you one more time to apologize to the painters and the art buyers who like those paintings, and then I'll happily leave y'all to critique this painting.
Jacob Rodgers, occasional nitwit.

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kiwihiker
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by kiwihiker » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:53 am

Dirk89stensrud wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:35 pm
One alternative is to not focus on being a scholar but taking just one-three levels in it. A wanderer or warden who has a couple Scholar levels should keep your healing relatively limited (which sounds like it's what you want) while also allowing everyone in your group to be able to fight.
Exactly, although one of my players has done the inverse - a few levels in scholar, then jumped out to wanderer for a couple of levels, then back into scholar. Has done a lot to help with both enabling the character in combat, as well as fitting nicely into our story-line. Everyone's happy :)

Michebugio
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by Michebugio » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:49 am

Baronvonheil wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:14 pm
I do stand by the substance of what I say. Games should be designed so that anyone can enjoy them. The fact that my group was basically drawing straws to see who had to play the scholar means we have a problem. Mechanically a group absolutely needs one, but they are the kind of class that more people don't enjoy playing than do enjoying playing. I strongly dislike homebrew rules as does the rest of my group.
Well, if you don't like the class, but don't like homebrew either, even if it's balanced and playtested... then there isn't much to do, apart from accepting the suggestion of Dirk89stensrud of taking only three levels in Scholar, and then multiclass. It will limit the healing and give the character more combat-oriented capabilities.

As a side note, I can tell you that the healing of a Scholar is far from mandatory in a Company. The game I'm currently loremastering has a Slayer, a Wanderer, a Warrior/Treasure Hunter, and my homebrew Scholar. What it loses in terms of healing during combat, it gains in firepower. Killing enemies more quickly is just as good as having a character that doesn't fight, but heals. They're all almost at 4th level now, and they're doing just great.

MrUkpyr
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by MrUkpyr » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:18 pm

You are incorrect when you say that a Scholar is worthless in combat.

Our Scholar is the ranged-weapon gorilla, and he is quite good at it. Decent ST, so when he throws that weapon it hits *hard*, high DEX so he is very good at shooting his bow or throwing his weapons, and an intelligent understanding of tactics so that he can direct the other players in how they use ranged weapons to weaken/kill incoming attackers.

Michebugio's "Alternate Scholar" isn't bad either.

Also, remember that herbs can go a long way in handling healing issues. You just have to make sure that the players have access to the herbs which do the best job of healing.

Oh, and on the topic of "tone" - remember rule #1: "Don't be that guy".

Otaku-sempai
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Re: Why does the Scholar suck so bad

Post by Otaku-sempai » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:04 pm

I've lurked and stayed quiet, not having a dog in this fight. Personally, the multi-class option seems like the best solution to me as opposed to home-brewing an alternate Scholar or ignoring the class altogether. Multi-classing can also address the issue of those who want the Scholar to have magical abilities.
DR. MANHATTAN: I'm leaving this galaxy for one less complicated.
OZYMANDIAS: But you'd regained interest in human life...
DR. MANHATTAN: Yes, I have. I think perhaps I'll create some. Goodbye, Adrian.

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