Herbalism Kit?

The place for discussion of Cubicle 7 and Sophisticated Games' "Adventures in Middle-earth" OGL setting.
Otaku-sempai
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Re: Herbalism Kit?

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri May 26, 2017 3:23 am

JimmyTheCannon wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 2:58 am
Well, for one, Herb-Lore isn't a skill. It's available as a specialty on the Lure of the Wild and Magician backgrounds, but that's an extremely niche item that very few characters would be able to use. Maybe make it a Tool Proficiency that can be chosen?
I reasoned that Herb-lore could be treated as a sub-category of the Lore skill, but I guess not. Okay, adjust my suggestions as necessary.
With that said, are you suggesting it contains the complete ingredients to make 10 of those potions, or 10 times with the kit, you can do either of the first two things, or make one of the potions/salves after getting the appropriate plant? Because I feel it should be the latter - it definitely shouldn't contain the rare herbs for those potions, but the common ingredients that you need to mix those herbs with, sure, that makes sense.
Yeah, maybe those specific herbs should not be assumed to be included in a standard kit. So the potential uses should be more generalized, as in the first couple of suggestions. Maybe a use might allow for brewing a potion to lower a fever or relieve pain or allow a person to sleep.
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JimmyTheCannon
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Re: Herbalism Kit?

Post by JimmyTheCannon » Fri May 26, 2017 3:38 am

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 3:23 am
I reasoned that Herb-lore could be treated as a sub-category of the Lore skill, but I guess not. Okay, adjust my suggestions as necessary.
Lore is described as "unusual and obscure information about old legends, ancient war gear, bits of song, rare artefacts, and the reading of runes". None of that sounds like it'd cover Herbalism - if I were to put it under an existing skill I'd put it under Survival or Medicine. Probably Survival. But that's just my take on it.
Yeah, maybe those specific herbs should not be assumed to be included in a standard kit. So the potential uses should be more generalized, as in the first couple of suggestions. Maybe a use might allow for brewing a potion to lower a fever or relieve pain or allow a person to sleep.
Those sound good, assuming these are things that normally would require Medicine rolls to accomplish and the kit is allowing you to do it without rolling. Not sure how much use there would be for it - that would depend on your game. But I would definitely see NPC healers using such a thing.

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zedturtle
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Re: Herbalism Kit?

Post by zedturtle » Fri May 26, 2017 3:54 am

Herb-lore is a Speciality, granted by a couple of different Backgrounds. Specialities can be used to earn Inspiration, allow an automatic success for routine things, and grant you a Proficiency Bonus or Advantage when you need to make an attribute check involving the Speciality.
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Otaku-sempai
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Re: Herbalism Kit?

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri May 26, 2017 4:27 am

zedturtle wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 3:54 am
Herb-lore is a Speciality, granted by a couple of different Backgrounds. Specialities can be used to earn Inspiration, allow an automatic success for routine things, and grant you a Proficiency Bonus or Advantage when you need to make an attribute check involving the Speciality.
Yes, so the appropriate Skill role to apply when using an herbalism kit is probably Wisdom (Medicine), at least when preparing or applying herbs and herbal preparations. Here is the Herbalism Kit from the D&D 5e SRD-OLG pdf:
Herbalism Kit. This kit contains a variety of instruments such as clippers, mortar and pestle, and pouches and vials used by herbalists to create remedies and potions. Proficiency with this kit lets you add your proficiency bonus to any ability checks you make to identify or apply herbs. Also, proficiency with this kit is required to create antitoxin and potions of healing.
Suggested applications:
  • You can administer a preparation that automatically restores the full Hit Die value of one Hit Die spent to regain hit points during the next short rest.
  • You can alleviate the effects of one level of exhaustion for one person without the need to make a Wisdom (Medicine) check. The level does not go away, just the penalty.
  • You can neutralize the effects of a single poison type for one creature without needing to make a Wisdom (Medicine) check.
  • You can prepare an herbal remedy that can, if not cure a character affected by illness, at least relieve the symptoms for a limited time.
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MrUkpyr
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Re: Herbalism Kit?

Post by MrUkpyr » Fri May 26, 2017 2:08 pm

I've been reading and thinking.
My thoughts regarding the Herbalism Kit are like this.

The Healers/Medicine Kit gives you bandages, poultices, things to sew up a bad cut, etc etc. Has 10 uses. Enables a person without proficiency in the Medicine Skill the ability to stabilize a person without needing to make a roll.
IF you are proficient with the Medicine Skill, using the Healers Kit gives you advantage on your Medicine roll.

The Survival Skill lets you find herbs. It lets you prepare them, but at a disadvantage, since you don't have the right tools for doing so (you're using the pommel of your dagger and a wooden bowl instead of the mortar and pestle).

The Herbalism Kit is not needed to make a Medicine roll. Having an Herbalism Kit means that you can process herbs correctly and easily, making a simple Wisdom roll to do so. If you are proficient in using the Herbalism Kit, then you get to add your proficiency bonus to said roll.

Having the Herbalism Kit means your herbs are of good quality, and correctly maintained, so when you use an herb it is more effective. Perhaps it removes 1.5 levels of exhaustion, or heals an extra Hit Point or two (not an extra Hit Die), or it lets you stay awake a few hours more (before sleep claims you).

Having the Herbalism Kit also means that you gain advantage on your Medicine roll when using herbs.

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Re: Herbalism Kit?

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri May 26, 2017 3:12 pm

MrUkpyr wrote:
Fri May 26, 2017 2:08 pm
The Herbalism Kit is not needed to make a Medicine roll. Having an Herbalism Kit means that you can process herbs correctly and easily, making a simple Wisdom roll to do so. If you are proficient in using the Herbalism Kit, then you get to add your proficiency bonus to said roll.
I agree, though I myself never meant to imply such a thing--only that the use of an Herbalism Kit (especially in conjunction with the Specialty Herb-lore) could modify or eliminate the need for such a roll.
Having the Herbalism Kit means your herbs are of good quality, and correctly maintained, so when you use an herb it is more effective. Perhaps it removes 1.5 levels of exhaustion, or heals an extra Hit Point or two (not an extra Hit Die), or it lets you stay awake a few hours more (before sleep claims you).
Well, this is from the given description: "Proficiency with this kit lets you add your proficiency bonus to any ability checks you make to identify or apply herbs." It seems fairly straightforward; and "apply herbs" can be interpreted as the preparation and application of herbs and herbal preparations. The final sentence, "Also, proficiency with this kit is required to create antitoxin and potions of healing." would seem to raise the most questions as to how it applies (if at all) to Adventures in Middle-earth.
Having the Herbalism Kit also means that you gain advantage on your Medicine roll when using herbs.
Yes, I could see that.
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daedel
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Re: Herbalism Kit?

Post by daedel » Wed May 31, 2017 10:35 am

Thanks all for your comments. I've come to this: proficiency in herbalism kit is necessary to create a salve or potion from one of the healing herbs listed in AIME. Herb-Lore specialty removes the need of this, so someone with this specialty will be able to create these potions and salves, too (the herbalism kit will still be necessary though). A Scholar with herb-lore specialty will be able then to create them with advantage. The skill to be used would be mainly Wisdom (Medecine). To fetch the necessary herbs, someone needs the herb-lore specialty or a good roll at Wisdom (Survival), and the LM is the one that determines if herbs are available in a given area or not.
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Re: Herbalism Kit?

Post by MrUkpyr » Wed May 31, 2017 2:55 pm

daedel wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 10:35 am
Thanks all for your comments. I've come to this: proficiency in herbalism kit is necessary to create a salve or potion from one of the healing herbs listed in AIME. Herb-Lore specialty removes the need of this, so someone with this specialty will be able to create these potions and salves, too (the herbalism kit will still be necessary though). A Scholar with herb-lore specialty will be able then to create them with advantage. The skill to be used would be mainly Wisdom (Medecine). To fetch the necessary herbs, someone needs the herb-lore specialty or a good roll at Wisdom (Survival), and the LM is the one that determines if herbs are available in a given area or not.
You might also consider saying that having the Herbalism Kit gives you advantage when curing/drying/storing the herbs. The kit has nothing to do with finding said herbs, and thus does *not* give a bonus to their finding.

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Majestic
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Re: Herbalism Kit?

Post by Majestic » Wed May 31, 2017 8:54 pm

MrUkpyr wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 2:55 pm
daedel wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 10:35 am
Thanks all for your comments. I've come to this: proficiency in herbalism kit is necessary to create a salve or potion from one of the healing herbs listed in AIME. Herb-Lore specialty removes the need of this, so someone with this specialty will be able to create these potions and salves, too (the herbalism kit will still be necessary though). A Scholar with herb-lore specialty will be able then to create them with advantage. The skill to be used would be mainly Wisdom (Medecine). To fetch the necessary herbs, someone needs the herb-lore specialty or a good roll at Wisdom (Survival), and the LM is the one that determines if herbs are available in a given area or not.
You might also consider saying that having the Herbalism Kit gives you advantage when curing/drying/storing the herbs. The kit has nothing to do with finding said herbs, and thus does *not* give a bonus to their finding.
My only concern with this is that a GM is unlikely to ask for a roll for a PC to "cure/dry/store" herbs. What you say makes sense, but games mechanic-wise I can't see that being used much (if at all) during a game.
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MrUkpyr
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Re: Herbalism Kit?

Post by MrUkpyr » Wed May 31, 2017 9:00 pm

Majestic wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 8:54 pm
MrUkpyr wrote:
Wed May 31, 2017 2:55 pm
You might also consider saying that having the Herbalism Kit gives you advantage when curing/drying/storing the herbs. The kit has nothing to do with finding said herbs, and thus does *not* give a bonus to their finding.
My only concern with this is that a GM is unlikely to ask for a roll for a PC to "cure/dry/store" herbs. What you say makes sense, but games mechanic-wise I can't see that being used much (if at all) during a game.
Hmmm - that's a very good point. I would agree for normal usage, but would also disagree (as noted below).

If you have the Herbalism Kit and are "processing" herbs, then there would be no roll.
Now, if you *don't* have the Herbalism Kit, *then* you would have a roll, but it would be at a "disadvantage" since you don't have the correct tools which the Herbalism Kit contains.

Now, I would say that having the Herbalism Kit *should* provide an advantage if you are a Scholar who is using herbs in that special cool way that a Scholar can.

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