What Classes are the Fellowship and Thorin & Co.?

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Michebugio
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Re: What Classes are the Fellowship and Thorin & Co.?

Post by Michebugio » Sat Apr 08, 2017 6:04 pm

Just to say, Frodo is totally a Hunted by the Shadow background (I'd say, he's THE Hunted by the Shadow character!).

Also, he's a Fallohide Hobbit with at least the first level in Scholar (to bear the Ring, he NEEDS proficiency in Wisdom saving throws; resisting the Ring is essentially all he does throughout the books...).

Stats at 1st level? I'd say Str 8 Dex 15 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 15 Cha 12.

Now you are ready to play :mrgreen:

AkaKageWarrior
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Re: What Classes are the Fellowship and Thorin & Co.?

Post by AkaKageWarrior » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:56 pm

How dare you statting the heroes of Middle-Earth?!
That's not what it's for, heretics!
Err... anyway, I love it.! :D

Totally forgot about Imrahil. It's some decades ago that I read the books, and in between were many watchings of the movies...

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Morgoth
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Re: What Classes are the Fellowship and Thorin & Co.?

Post by Morgoth » Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:45 pm

AkaKageWarrior wrote:
Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:56 pm
Totally forgot about Imrahil. It's some decades ago that I read the books, and in between were many watchings of the movies...
I was disappointed that they left him out. He was one of my favorite supporting characters.
I smashed down the light and dared Valinor
I smashed down the light, revenge will be mine

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Southron
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Re: What Classes are the Fellowship and Thorin & Co.?

Post by Southron » Sun Apr 09, 2017 5:59 pm

AkaKageWarrior wrote:
Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:56 pm

Totally forgot about Imrahil. It's some decades ago that I read the books, and in between were many watchings of the movies...
I brought him up because A) it gave support to why I felt Boromir was higher ranked than Legolas or Gimli and B) Like Morgoth he is one of my favorite supporting characters. He wasn't to shabby for a 66 year old either. :)

frodolives
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Re: What Classes are the Fellowship and Thorin & Co.?

Post by frodolives » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:44 am

I love this kind of thread! I'll give my 12 silver pennies worth:
- If such a thing were part of the rules, I would assess the hobbits as 0-level characters without a definable class. None of them has any appreciable ability that would translate into a traditional class (IMHO of course). Merry, Pippin, and Sam would eventually become 1st and later 2nd level warriors (maybe Sam would be a warden).

- Aragorn is "the greatest traveler and huntsman in this age of the world" and "The wisest and hardiest Man of his time." Both according to Gandalf. He has been a ranger of the north, a warrior of the Rohirrim, a warrior of Gondor, and learned the ways of the elves from Elrond. He fought against "foes that would freeze (Butterbur's) heart or lay his little town in ruin." I would assess him as clearly the greatest warrior of the Fellowship, if not all middle earth (save someone like Glorfindel, who can trace his experience to the First Age).

- I don't see Legolas being higher level than Gimli. While the former is older, there doesn't seem to be any real difference in skill between the two at least as far as combat is concerned. Gimli even wins the Helm's Deep contest by one orc. I would rank the duo as equal.

- Boromir is a formidable warrior, perhaps the greatest in Gondor and Rohan. That said, he's in his 30s and certainly doesn't have the breadth of experience that Aragorn has.

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Southron
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Re: What Classes are the Fellowship and Thorin & Co.?

Post by Southron » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:05 am

frodolives wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:44 am
- Boromir is a formidable warrior, perhaps the greatest in Gondor and Rohan. That said, he's in his 30s and certainly doesn't have the breadth of experience that Aragorn has.

Not to gainsay your point, but I believe that Boromir is 41 in the books.

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ThrorII
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Re: What Classes are the Fellowship and Thorin & Co.?

Post by ThrorII » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:33 am

Yup, Boromir was born in 2978, and is 41 at the time of his death (+/- 1 year, depending on his birth month).

Again, looking at the class abilities in total, I feel that 16th level is the capstone for any mortal, with 17-20th levels reserved for Elf Lords and Maiar. lets face it, a Balor (5e's version of a Balrog) is 21HD and 5e Angels (which are kind of Maia-ish) are between 16 and 18 HD.

I can also see Gimli and Legolas both being the same level, around 10th to 12th.

I also feel the Famed Protector 15th level Warrior (Knight) ability was designed with Boromir's last stand in mind. If Boromir was 15th level, then Aragorn could be 16th level. Since Aragorn has the 3rd level scholar ability to use Athelas, he can be a Ranger 13/Scholar 3 and maintain the 16th level cap.

Just my thoughts.

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Morgoth
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Re: What Classes are the Fellowship and Thorin & Co.?

Post by Morgoth » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:08 am

Southron Loremaster wrote:
Sat Apr 08, 2017 9:19 am
Morgoth wrote:
Fri Apr 07, 2017 5:51 am
I would definitely put Legolas and Gimli at a higher level than Boromir.
Speaking solely from the books. In Boromir's favor, Appendix A calls him "Captain of the White Tower", while Faramir called him "High Warden of the White Tower" and "our Captain-General". The Rohirrim a culture of warriors even praised him as a great warrior.

Also, in the books only Eomer, Imrahil, Aragorn returned from the Battle of the Pelennor Fields unscathed. There is a comment by Eowyn that no man of the Mark would be able to best Faramir, who in turn thought the Boromir was the better warrior between the two of them. So, that would place him above Eomer, who was below Faramir, who was below Boromir. I think that puts him as one of the best warrior's alive save maybe Aragorn and Imrahil.

No knock against Legolas or Gimli, a great archer and axe-wielder respectively, but when the Balrog came Boromir didn't show the fear those two did. As a possible 15th level knight maybe his Famed Protector ability may have kicked in then. ;)
It does say that Eomer, Imrahil, and Aragorn were unscathed, but it does not say they were the only ones unscathed. I could find no mention of Legolas or Gimli being injured in the fight, either. But even if they were, that doesn't mean much. Luck is a huge part of any fight. Also remember that Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn were at a huge disadvantage in the battle. They were all in basically in traveling clothes, while Eomer and Imrahil were in full armor and were on horseback for a good portion of the battle.

I think you're reading too much into Eowyn's comment. First off, saying that no man of the Mark could best him does not mean he could best all men of the Mark. It's quite possible that one or even many men of the Mark could still be his equal (that's assuming what she says is true). However, I highly doubt that Eowyn had even seen every man of the mark fight. If that's the case, she really can't make that claim with any certainty. So perhaps we should take her words with a grain of salt. She's simply paying him a compliment. She's saying he's an excellent fighter... that he's on the same tier as the best she's ever seen.

As far as the Balrog goes, both Legolas and Gimli knew what a Balrog was and how powerful it was. In fact, Legolas is the first to identify the being. And Gimli also knows it as Durin's Bane, and I'm sure is well aware of its destructive power against his people in the past. I suspect that Boromir's lack of fear was not a matter of more courage, but rather less knowledge.
I smashed down the light and dared Valinor
I smashed down the light, revenge will be mine

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Southron
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Re: What Classes are the Fellowship and Thorin & Co.?

Post by Southron » Mon Apr 10, 2017 11:29 am

MORGOTH,

For your thoughts on Legolas', Gimli, and Aragorn being at a disadvantage:

In the " King of the Golden Hall" is says that Aragorn and Legolas were "arrayed in shining mail, helms, and round shields" ...and for Gimli " there was not hauberk in the hoards of Edoras of better make than his short corset forged beneath the Mountain in the North. He took a helm too.

There is no mention of them discarding their war gear.

For Eowyn's remark, actually, it wasn't Eowyn's comment but the narrator's comment that said, " ...and yet knew, for she was bred among men of war, that there was one whom no Rider of the Mark would outmatch in battle"

I take that as Tolkien stating Faramir > than any rider of the Mark.

Your Balrog comment does have merit. But, I am not sure even if he knew what it was he would have fled.

Is there any literary evidence to support your thoughts on Gimli and Legolas? I couldn't find any myself, so it would great if you could point it out for me.

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T.S. Luikart
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Re: What Classes are the Fellowship and Thorin & Co.?

Post by T.S. Luikart » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:01 pm

ThrorII wrote:
Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:33 am
Again, looking at the class abilities in total, I feel that 16th level is the capstone for any mortal, with 17-20th levels reserved for Elf Lords and Maiar. lets face it, a Balor (5e's version of a Balrog) is 21HD and 5e Angels (which are kind of Maia-ish) are between 16 and 18 HD.
I have many thoughts on this subject I may be able to share with you guys more fully in the future - I will say this (and mind you, this is purely a personal non-official take) - I agree with ThrorII - in fact, it's like he read my notes. ;)

I have Aragorn as a 15th level character that turns 16th level during the events of the War of the Ring (basically, as he Milestones: "Become King").

17th+ in general belong to the 1st and 2nd Age. Only a few left like that in the Twilight of the 3rd Age.

Ignore as you see fit.
TS Luikart
Cubicle 7

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