The D&D Edit Dark Ages Weapons and Armour

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BookBarbarian
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The D&D Edit Dark Ages Weapons and Armour

Post by BookBarbarian » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:38 pm

About a year ago I saw that someone had taken the time to write up some beautiful weapon and armour tables for running a Dark Ages campaign with 5e. I thought they were pretty awesome, and had planed on using them in my next campaign, but I never got the chance.

Since Middle Earth drew heavily on Dark Age Sagas, I though I might be able to incorporate some of these into my AiME game, Like having a Broadseax for a Heavy Scimitar, or a Langseax for a Longsword. I think they would particularly be a great fit for Beorning, Woodmen, or Rohan cultures.

Here are the tables at the D&D edit: http://dnd-edit.tumblr.com/search/dark+ages

What do you think?

Otaku-sempai
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Re: The D&D Edit Dark Ages Weapons and Armour

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:06 am

These are nice tables even though they don't seem to add much to the AiMe tables (with a handful of exceptions). None of the swords presented seem to be versatile in the sense of being designed to be used with one or both hands; the broadseax (as pictured) does not seem to be a good substitute for a greatsword or even a long sword, though in Middle-earth I'm not sure there's a clear distinction between the two terms. It looks to be basically a long, heavy cleaver. The langseax looks like it needs a tweak in the form of either a slightly longer hilt or a place above the hilt to grip with the off-hand for two-handed use (probably the former?).

The additional options for armour might be welcome.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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NozzDogg47
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Re: The D&D Edit Dark Ages Weapons and Armour

Post by NozzDogg47 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:08 pm

Hey, I like it. Most of that stuff is historical, right? I especially like the fact it acknowledges how significant a sword actually is in that time period, as well as the new armour types. I'm going the other way and doing a Mid-Late Medieval setting, so I get how big a deal armour is to the style of a setting.

I've personally gone the other way and built a super simplified weapon list for my campaign, rather than detailing all the different options, but I think if you need to give the players a bit of an idea this is probably the best way to do it.

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NozzDogg47
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Re: The D&D Edit Dark Ages Weapons and Armour

Post by NozzDogg47 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:46 pm

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:06 am
None of the swords presented seem to be versatile in the sense of being designed to be used with one or both hands; the broadseax (as pictured) does not seem to be a good substitute for a greatsword or even a long sword, though in Middle-earth I'm not sure there's a clear distinction between the two terms. It looks to be basically a long, heavy cleaver. The langseax looks like it needs a tweak in the form of either a slightly longer hilt or a place above the hilt to grip with the off-hand for two-handed use (probably the former?).
Those are based on historical weapons; I'm pretty certain the list is designed to reskin DnD as well as it can, not fit things perfectly. If you want to do a true dark age campaign, there's a good chance you won't get many two handed swords period, since most people needed one hand to hold a shield anyway.

Even so, I'm going two say that the handles look fine. If we're looking at the dagger equivalent fitting a palm, then you can easily get to hands around the versatile and two handed weapons. Longsword handles are only about half a hand longer than the one on a single handed sword. That's why they're often called hand and a half swords. All these blades more than match that description.

As for the longsword/greatsword distinction IRL, there is none. It's the same weapon. Really big swords like zweihanders and spadone are basically polearms.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: The D&D Edit Dark Ages Weapons and Armour

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:51 pm

I'll take your word that most of those listed as versatile can be used as hand-and-a-half swords. I still don't like the pictured hilt for the broadseax, but I can imagine it being just a little longer.
NozzDogg47 wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:46 pm
As for the longsword/greatsword distinction IRL, there is none. It's the same weapon. Really big swords like zweihanders and spadone are basically polearms.
The swords in Middle-earth--such as Andúril, Glamdring and Orcrist--that fit the description of long sword seem to be hand-and-a-half swords rather than what I could consider to be a true greatsword, a full-stop two-handed sword, a weapon not found in the AiMe Player's Guide. I disagree that such blades are essentially polearms; I've seen weapons that are essentially a short spear attached to a sword-blade and they are fundamentally different from a two-handed sword. I did do a write-up for the Great Sword for TOR just to see how it should stat out. I also suggested an optional rule for long swords: Dwarves may use long swords, but only as two-handed weapons and only as long as the total length does not exceed their height.
Last edited by Otaku-sempai on Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

BookBarbarian
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Re: The D&D Edit Dark Ages Weapons and Armour

Post by BookBarbarian » Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:09 pm

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:51 pm
Dwarves may use long swords, but only as two-handed weapons and only as long as the total length does not exceed their height.
I guess this boils down to how you picture Dwarves. I always saw them as shorter that Humans (4 to nearly 5 feet), but with hands, head, and feet the same size as humans' hands, head, and feet, which mostly accounts for them using the same sized weapons. Hobbits are of course smaller.

In regard to Anduril and Glamdring and such being hand and a half swords I think you're right, though I imagine Dwarves, Noldor, and Numenoreans would have more advanced arms and armor that you're typical Mannish culture like Woodmen, Beornings and the like.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: The D&D Edit Dark Ages Weapons and Armour

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:33 pm

BookBarbarian wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:09 pm
Otaku-sempai wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:51 pm
Dwarves may use long swords, but only as two-handed weapons and only as long as the total length does not exceed their height.
I guess this boils down to how you picture Dwarves. I always saw them as shorter that Humans (4 to nearly 5 feet), but with hands, head, and feet the same size as humans' hands, head, and feet, which mostly accounts for them using the same sized weapons. Hobbits are of course smaller.
Well, apparently two-handed swords can vary in total length from about 4 to 6 feet, so we are talking about the lower end of the range.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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NozzDogg47
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Re: The D&D Edit Dark Ages Weapons and Armour

Post by NozzDogg47 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:45 pm

Double post
Last edited by NozzDogg47 on Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NozzDogg47
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Re: The D&D Edit Dark Ages Weapons and Armour

Post by NozzDogg47 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 8:54 pm

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:51 pm
I'll take your word that most of those listed as versatile can be used as hand-and-a-half swords. I still don't like the pictured hilt for the broadseax, but I can imagine it being just a little longer.
NozzDogg47 wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:46 pm
As for the longsword/greatsword distinction IRL, there is none. It's the same weapon. Really big swords like zweihanders and spadone are basically polearms.
Th I disagree that such blades are essentially polearms.
What I mean is that there's a massive jump before you get a blade that truly can't be wielded in 1 hand. I've been doing HEMA for a while and often when we haven't had enough 1 handed swords people end up using longswords instead, since the big difference is handle length. Even heavier, longer blades that you'd expect you need to use two handed can be wielded one handed. I honestly haven't seen a single blade in the movies that I would call a purely two handed sword, aside from those bizarre axe things the uruk beserkers use...

The one big thing that DnD has never quite realised however is that even though you can use a longsword in one hand, you basically never do. It's always better to use a true one handed weapon if you're planning to use it with a shield. The entire point of a longsword is you have more leverage. The handle is a deficit if you use it in one hand; even on a light longsword, since the weight distribution ends up being less than ideal.

I'm not saying people can't, more that they wouldn't.

When I designed my weapon list for this game I essentially threw the concept out the door. Two Handed Weapons, including longwords, do 2D6 and if you want to use a sword with a shield just pick up a one handed sword.

I've never met a player whose used the versatile quality on a DnD longsword more than once anyway. People just pick them up when they build sword and board warriors.
Last edited by NozzDogg47 on Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: The D&D Edit Dark Ages Weapons and Armour

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:12 pm

Yeah, I've developed the same impression concerning bastard swords: they were more often used using two hands than one. If you are already wearing heavy armor then why forego the added power by using a shield? Not to mention the fatigue that would quickly set in by wielding a large sword one-handed. Aragorn's hand-and-a-half 'Ranger sword' is probably as close as the films get to a two-handed great sword--a rare example of Peter Jackson showing some restraint.

What's funny is that before the rise of D&D 3e and its successors I never thought of a long sword as anything other than a one-handed weapon, distinct from a hand-and-a-half (bastard) sword.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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