The new adventure supplement

The place for discussion of Cubicle 7 and Sophisticated Games' "Adventures in Middle-earth" OGL setting.
BookBarbarian
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Re: The new adventure supplement

Post by BookBarbarian » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:38 pm

Jon Hodgson wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:25 pm
And if you're able to make an easy conversion between the lines, then rejoice! You're smarter than the average bear and get the best of both worlds!
Hmm... should I find out if I'm smarter than the average bear? Nah, I think i'll just buy the new adventures. :lol:

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Tolwen
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Re: The new adventure supplement

Post by Tolwen » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:58 pm

Hermes Serpent wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:27 am
If they don't have approval, and thus cannot put the M-e E logo on the book, and publish anyway they may break the terms of their licence and we all know what happened to ICE when they produced unauthorised material.
Somewhat OT to the precise question, but for the record for anyone who's interested ;)

ICE produced unauthorized material (in the way of "breaking the terms of their license") right from the beginning of MERP. I cannot imagine that it took MEE (or TE at the time) 17 years to realize that their licensee (who had to get every product approved by them anyway) was overstepping its license ;)
It's far more likely that before the PJ films nobody cared about that, since this was quite a nerd niche with little profits and not a billion-dollar merchandise/license market. IIRC (and IMO) TE/MEE never used this "overstepping license" as a pretext to shut MERP down, but they fostered the bankruptcy of ICE to remove the license from them (which the latter had renewed at a - relatively - bargain shortly before the PJ films were announced) to sell them for a *much* higher profit to a new licensee. And the inept business decisions at ICE (at least partly) made that quite easy to accomplish.

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Tolwen
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Otaku-sempai
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Re: The new adventure supplement

Post by Otaku-sempai » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:16 pm

I'm not sure whether it was Middle-earth Enterprises that objected to the excesses taken by ICE or if it was the Tolkien Estate that raised the issue, since it was with them that the company was in violation. The out-of-bounds material belonged to the Estate, with which Iron Crown had no agreement.
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Tolwen
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Re: The new adventure supplement

Post by Tolwen » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:50 pm

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:16 pm
I'm not sure whether it was Middle-earth Enterprises that objected to the excesses taken by ICE or if it was the Tolkien Estate that raised the issue, since it was with them that the company was in violation. The out-of-bounds material belonged to the Estate, with which Iron Crown had no agreement.
IMO an important point is the timing. It does not seem to have been an issue for ca. 17 years, and only came up when the worth of the license suddenly went through the roof (in relative terms compared to the years before). I do not doubt that TE/MEE would have welcomed such aid from the Tolkien Estate to get rid of a - for them - far less profitable contract. The point is that we do not have reliable data on the exact motives and the proceedings in the background since these weren't publicized.
We do know though that TE/MEE in the '90s was not interested in the details of their licensed products, beyond the profit gained from them. At least that was confirmed in an interview with TE's licensing director from November '95 (and who is - IIRC - still with them in that capacity). All the legal issues about royalties and shares of the profits in the wake of the movies from recent years indeed re-affirm the impression that this priority hasn't changed much.

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Tolwen
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Otaku-sempai
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Re: The new adventure supplement

Post by Otaku-sempai » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:06 pm

Well, both Middle-earth Enterprises and Iron Crown were vulnerable at that point to legal action from the Tolkien Estate so it might well have been a little bit of 'A' and a little bit of 'B'. Thank you, Tolwen, for your insights.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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Tolwen
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Re: The new adventure supplement

Post by Tolwen » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:26 pm

At your service :)

A nice summary of these events can be found on this page on RPG.net, even though it doesn't give verifiable sources (though sources are listed at the end). But these are sparse indeed, mostly because the events concerned private companies that had no obligations (and interest) to make details of their respective dealings and relations public.
Thus we have to rely on data that has been published and beyond that extrapolate on the events as they happened by using the confirmed data.

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Tolwen
Last edited by Tolwen on Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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zedturtle
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Re: The new adventure supplement

Post by zedturtle » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:34 pm

While the history of the industry as a whole is an interesting topic, this is probably not the best venue for it.
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Tolwen
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Re: The new adventure supplement

Post by Tolwen » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:40 pm

I wanted my previous post to be understood as my closing one on this OT fork. No harm or inappropriate content was intended from my side :)

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Glorelendil
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Re: The new adventure supplement

Post by Glorelendil » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:08 pm

MasterSmithwise wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:41 pm
This is more opinion and a cue for discussion than a complaint. I don't personally like that we're getting a full priced product for converted, previously released material.
I dunno. If you start from the assumption that the price of a supplement should somehow correlate to the work required to get it ready from production, then wouldn't you also expect reprints to cost even less?

"Hey, folks, we sold out of Rivendell, and so we printed up more. But since most of the work was already done, we dropped the price to $15!"

I don't think it really works that way.
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vegaserik
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Re: The new adventure supplement

Post by vegaserik » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:01 pm

Glorelendil wrote:
Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:08 pm
MasterSmithwise wrote:
Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:41 pm
This is more opinion and a cue for discussion than a complaint. I don't personally like that we're getting a full priced product for converted, previously released material.
I dunno. If you start from the assumption that the price of a supplement should somehow correlate to the work required to get it ready from production, then wouldn't you also expect reprints to cost even less?

"Hey, folks, we sold out of Rivendell, and so we printed up more. But since most of the work was already done, we dropped the price to $15!"

I don't think it really works that way.

Plus it would really piss off the TOR only people who have to pay full price where the 5E people get the same book at a discount and rightfully so. I have a bunch of the TOR books but will probably never get the chance to use them in a game, where as the AIME books - because they're 5e - will likely get used. I'm fine with purchasing the books at the same price. It's up to each of us to weigh the price versus having to convert everything. Some books may not be worth it, but some may be.

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