Spiders overpowered?

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ThrorII
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Spiders overpowered?

Post by ThrorII » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:09 am

So, until the Loremaster Guide came out, I was running Attercops as 5e Giant Wolf Spiders (CR1/4; 2d8+2 hp) and Great Spiders as 5e Giant Spiders (CR1; 4d10+4). I consider the Children of Shelob as 8 Hit Die creatures.

This fit in with TOR's handling of Attercops as Attribute Level 3 (starting character level), and Great Spiders as Attribute level 4 (slightly higher than starting characters). The Children of Shelob were equal to Trolls in TOR.

Then the AiMe Loremaster's Guide came out.....and WOW, spiders are a cr@pload more powerful than TOR...

Attercops are 4d8+4 hp (CR 1/2) and Great Spiders are 8d10+32!!!!! (CR5).

in TOR, Great Spiders were nowhere near Troll strength (Att lvl 4 vs. Att Lvl 8), but in AiMe, a Great Spider is as challenging as a Troll (both 8d10, CR 5).

Anyone else think the Spiders of Mirkwood are a bit off?
Last edited by ThrorII on Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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zedturtle
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Re: Spiders overpowered?

Post by zedturtle » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:09 pm

Giant Wolf Spiders are CR 1/4.
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Soninlawofelfland
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Re: Spiders overpowered?

Post by Soninlawofelfland » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:11 pm

I do not. Depending on character choices a PC can get a prett high AC early on and the toughness is appreciated. Also, I don't think the spiders should be a minor threat in Mirkwood but the great danger that makes doing anything in the wood difficult where they have a beachhead.

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ThrorII
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Re: Spiders overpowered?

Post by ThrorII » Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:51 pm

Soninlawofelfland wrote: Also, I don't think the spiders should be a minor threat in Mirkwood but the great danger that makes doing anything in the wood difficult where they have a beachhead.
"While a single Attercop does not pose a significant threat to any but a less experienced adventurer, a roused Spider-colony can be a challenge even for a veteran company of heroes" LMG pg. 105

This description (like most fluff text) was lifted directly from TOR, where an Attercop was equal to a beginning character, and barely more of a threat than a Goblin. Attercops are not supposed to be individually a threat, but more of a danger en mass.

I don't think you can say a CR1/2, 4d8+4 (22 hp) attercop does not pose a significant threat to a single less experienced adventurer.

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zedturtle
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Re: Spiders overpowered?

Post by zedturtle » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:29 pm

It says that a single Attercop is a threat to an inexperienced adventurer ("any but").

The One Ring Roleplaying Game and Adventures in Middle-earth are going to have a lot of similarities, since they both use the amazing backdrop of Middle-earth to tell stories of heroism and adventure. But the two systems work differently, especially in regard to advancement and what an experienced adventurer looks like compared to an inexperienced one. There is not likely to be a 1:1 correspondence between the two games, except in the fact that they're both drawing on the same wonderful source material.
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Jon Hodgson
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Re: Spiders overpowered?

Post by Jon Hodgson » Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:58 pm

Aye, looking for 1:1 correlation quickly runs into problems. It's safer to assume each game has it's own assumptions on things like monster design.

It's a weird one, because superficially they look the same, and sometimes serendipity let us use similar or identical names or terms. But coming from TOR with expectations for the toughness of given monsters in AME won't bear fruit.

I'm happy that sentence about the threat about Attercops is true for both games.
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Beran
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Re: Spiders overpowered?

Post by Beran » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:47 pm

When I got the AiME rules the first thing I did was convert some of my groups old TOR characters over. Now, I can't remember the exact number of XP the TOR PCs had, but it wasn't a huge amount. The campaign ended prematurely. Yet, when I did the conversion, based solely on virtues the characters had, they were around 6-7th level...IIRC. So, there is certainly not a 1:1 correlation between the systems.

Characters in AiME are going to be a tad bit tougher, and more geared toward combat then they would be in TOR. One of the points I really like about AiME is the fact that C7 created a number of non-combat virtues to help steer PCs away form making a combat machines.

Mykesfree
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Re: Spiders overpowered?

Post by Mykesfree » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:38 am

I think I mentioned this in other threads, but due to the minimal amount of area of effect attacks, as soon as the action econmey is in favor of the monsters, it is time for player heroes to run. For player heroes, AC and Hit points can go up, but their damage on average will only get high enough to take out a CR 1 monster on 1 turn. So a 5 player party of level 3 can take on a single CR 5 monster, it will be really hard. However a 5 player party of 3rd level will be a deadly Encounter for a group of 10-15 CR 1/2 monsters.

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Majestic
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Re: Spiders overpowered?

Post by Majestic » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:52 pm

One other thing we've noticed (convertings PCs from TOR to AiMe) is that players might have more Feats (Cultural Heirlooms and Cultural Virtues) than they otherwise would based on their level.

For instance, we just have begun converting a returning player's Hobbit. He will be 8th Level, which at most by 5E he would have two Feats (one at 4th and one at 8th). But the same character in TOR has a Wisdom of 4 and a Valour of 4, so he's racked up quite a bit of Rewards and Virtues in TOR.

It can be tough to figure out the appropriate physical stats, too. That same Hobbit only has a Body of 2, yet being a Rogue it's not quite fair to give him low scores in all three physical attributes. A high Travel score, too, might suggest that a character's Endurance is better than what their Body score might otherwise be.
Adventure Summaries of our campaign, currently playing through The Darkening of Mirkwood

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