Converting High Elves of Rivendell

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Michebugio
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Re: Converting High Elves of Rivendell

Post by Michebugio » Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:35 pm

Going a bit OT, I've added a small drawback to the Dunedain as well, inspired by their TOR counterpart: they can't gain Inspiration based on Distinctive Qualities, Specialties, Hope or Despair, unless these features are roleplayed in the very act of protecting a character, or a place.

Examples:

Distinctive Quality:Bold. You are not rewarded with Inspiration in any situation where you behave boldly, but you do get Inspiration if you act boldly during the rescue of an NPC, or trying to save one of your Companions.

Specialty: Woodwright. You are not rewarded with Inspiration whenever using your Woodwright skills, but you do get it when preparing traps to defend a strategic position on the battlefield, or when repairing a bridge that will bring to safety the Fellowship.

FyodenDragonclaw
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Re: Converting High Elves of Rivendell

Post by FyodenDragonclaw » Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:06 pm

New GM for the game here and one player wants to play a Rivendell Elf, so finding this topic has helped alot. I haven't played TOR yet and might pick it up later. But I want to thank everybody who has been working on conversions and everything for players.

Anarfin
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Re: Converting High Elves of Rivendell

Post by Anarfin » Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:24 pm

Great job with converting High Elves for AiME, guys. I especially like Thror's version - it nicely covers with my view of Noldor as a player's race in this system :)

I would give them (and Dunedain) some small drawback though - for example inability to get inspiration from non-elves/non-Dunedain characters (except from most unusual circumstances, I assume that in certain situations even hobbit can somehow inspire the Dunedain or mighty Noldo). It is nice and thematic, and gives them that "otherworldly" feel - they are relics of previous eras, they can inspire mortals, but in twilight of Third Era they cannot so easily grasp that bright spark that would give them hope.

By the way, Thror, I have some question regarding Artificer of Eregion Cultural Virtue and Enchant Weapons undertaking.
It states that "you may only enhance weapon that do not posses Enchanted Quality".

What about enchanting weapons with bonuses from other sources (Weaponmaster ability Birthright, weapon upgrades from the Lake-Town undertaking "Go to the market pool" etc.)?

I understand that Artificer of Eregion is Virtue from TOR - do this system gives any guidelines about mentioned situations?

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ThrorII
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Re: Converting High Elves of Rivendell

Post by ThrorII » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:24 am

Anarfin wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:24 pm
By the way, Thror, I have some question regarding Artificer of Eregion Cultural Virtue and Enchant Weapons undertaking.
It states that "you may only enhance weapon that do not posses Enchanted Quality".

What about enchanting weapons with bonuses from other sources (Weaponmaster ability Birthright, weapon upgrades from the Lake-Town undertaking "Go to the market pool" etc.)?

I understand that Artificer of Eregion is Virtue from TOR - do this system gives any guidelines about mentioned situations?
Origninally, those were meant to be allowed. But, clarifications have been made that all those such weapons count as enchanted. So, in retrospect, I'd say ''no". The purpose is to allow a mundane weapon become enchanted.

Anarfin
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Re: Converting High Elves of Rivendell

Post by Anarfin » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:17 pm

Indeed, the clarification in LMG states that those weapons count as enchanted (or "magical" as the errata puts it, so I am not entirely sure that they are the same).

Still I am not sure how to treat upgrades from the Lake-Town undertaking "Go to the market pool" from LMG. Errata do not mention them -for obvious reaason - and they are described rather as the result of superior quality (BTW gaining a bonus to hit or damage by setting precious stones into weapon hilt seems a little bit odd. I would describe it as "sharpening with diamond whetstone" or "balancing and customizing grip and hilt to better fit the warrior's hand"), than magical enchantment or quasi-magical result of elven/dwarven craftmanship. But this is question for another topic.

Do not get me wrong, I am not disagreeing with your point of view or trying to find a loophole in the rules, I am just thinking aloud :)

namkcor
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Re: Converting High Elves of Rivendell

Post by namkcor » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:57 am

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:58 pm
Robin Smallburrow wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:37 pm
• Players may reduce the effects of corruption on their High Elf hero as an undertaking during a Fellowship phase: The player chooses a Common skill and draws a black dot (or a small Eye… ) to the left of its name to decrease their character’s Shadow point total by a number based on the table below. It is not possible to mark the same skill twice.
Skill Rating Shadow Reduction
1 1
2 2
3 3
4 4
5 5
6 6
That is in error. It should read as follows:
Skill Rating / Shadow Reduction
1 / 1
2 / 3
3 / 6
4 / 10
5 / 15
6 / 21
Well thinking about it. there's several ways to do it. Its tough when all skills can be used in 5E by anyone unless the adventure says otherwise.

One is when doing the undertaking, they can take a "Shadow Mark"" on a skill. This treats the skill as being able to auto fail on ad20 roll of 1- amount of skill rating penalty. When this happens, the High Elf feels overpowering sadness at the task and gains a point of shadow.
So in the book example with proper conversion. Idril will auto fail her Insight skill checks on a d20 roll of 1-3 and gain a point of shadow when it happens. This is "new" for 5E as skills normally don't auto fail at all unless using custom rules.

Now heres the question; if we stick to "common" skills then the penalty should only be useable on non proficient skills; or we can do all skills. Either way; its a good number of skills and should limit the amount of penalty a skill can take based on Permanent Shadow points. Lets say max amount penalty to give is 3 + total of permanent shadow points (so max shadow that can be taken off before 1st is 6 shadow, then 10, then 15, then 21).

Otaku-sempai
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Re: Converting High Elves of Rivendell

Post by Otaku-sempai » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:09 am

This is going to be very similar to namkcor's post above. I think that adapting the rules for High-elves and Shadow from Rivendell is fairly straightforward. We can substitute Skill bonuses for the Skill ratings from The One Ring. The question is: should we cap the amount of the Skill bonus and, if so, what should we make that cap? For our purposes I went up to a bonus of +10 for a Shadow reduction of 55 to see what it would look like. I doubt that there would ever be a need to go so high.

High-elves and Shadow
She was brought back to Imladris, and though healed in body by Elrond, lost all delight in Middle-earth, and the next year went to the Havens and passed over Sea.

High Elves cannot ever truly forget the taint of the Shadow once it has left its mark on their spirit. For this reason, High Elf characters cannot ever choose the Heal Corruption Fellowship phase undertaking. The only way they know to endure the burden of Shadow and remain in Middle-earth is to slowly ‘distance’ themselves from the world.

• Players may reduce the effects of corruption on their High Elf hero as an undertaking during a Fellowship phase:

The player chooses a Skill with a bonus of +1 or greater and draws a black dot to the left of its name to decrease their character’s Shadow point total by a number based on the table below. It is not possible to mark the same skill twice. Shadow points cannot be reduced below '0'.

Skill Bonus / Shadow Reduction
1 / 1
2 / 3
3 / 6
4 / 10
5 / 15
6 / 21
7 / 28
8 / 36
9/ 45
10/ 55

Idril’s Shadow score has been 8 points since her company’s journey to the Mountains of Mirkwood. Fearing the consequences that further exposure to Shadow might bring, Idril’s player decides to do something about it. After a thorough analysis of her character sheet, she decides to mark her skill of Insight (+3), a choice that lets her get rid of 6 points. Her Shadow score is thus reduced to 2.

Using Marked Skills When an High Elf makes use of a marked skill, there is always the possibility that the hero is overwhelmed by a sense of hopelessness and fails to find the motivation to do the deed.

• Whenever a High Elf hero uses a marked skill outside of an Elven sanctuary, all rolls producing a natural '1' result on a d20 gain him 1 point of Shadow and are considered to fail automatically.

Idril has got rid of her fear and doubts, but has left behind herself part of her life in Middle-earth - when Idril will get to use her Insight skill, on a '1' result she will feel an overpowering sadness that will prevent her from completing her task...
Last edited by Otaku-sempai on Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Otaku-sempai
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Re: Converting High Elves of Rivendell

Post by Otaku-sempai » Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:28 pm

Michebugio wrote:
Sun May 14, 2017 9:41 am
HIGH ELVES OF RIVENDELL

Ability Score Increase – Your Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma scores increase by 1.

Against the Unseen - High Elves can perceive creatures that dwell in the wraithworld, be they spirits or ghosts, even when they are normally invisible to the eyes of the living (including Unclad and Invisible Ringwraiths).
Additionally, High Elves have advantage on saving throws against being frightened, and are considered to succeed automatically at any saving throw against being frightened by an undead creature.

The Eyes of Elves – You have proficiency in the Perception skill.

Elvish Dreams – Your sleep is not like that of mortals. When you sleep, you can choose to send your mind into an “Elvish Dream” retaining full consciousness of your surroundings and you needn’t close your eyes. Four hours spent in such dreams acts on you as if you had rested an entire night.

The Tools of War – You have proficiency with broadswords, long swords, short swords, and long bows.

Skill of the Eldar - You have proficiency in the Lore skill. You also gain proficiency with an artisan’s
tools of your choice: calligrapher's supplies, cartographer’s tools, jeweller’s tools, smith’s tools, or woodcarver’s tools. You also gain proficiency in one musical instrument of your choice.

Languages – You can speak the Ancient Tongue of the elves, the Quenya, along with the ability to
speak, read, and write Sindarin. You can also speak the Common Tongue.
I briefly toyed with the idea that the High Elves should perhaps receive proficiency on three skills instead of two. However, as that was not done with the Dúnedain, maybe we should not allow either that for the High Elves. However, I have thought of an alternative to your High Elf trait Skill of the Eldar:

High Elf Trait: The Wisdom of Many Days -- You have proficiency in the Insight skill.

This would reflect the High Elf ability to see into the hearts and minds of others.
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Anarfin
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Re: Converting High Elves of Rivendell

Post by Anarfin » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:47 pm

Ok, I have not played TOR and I do not know if in that system Elves of Rivendell are somehow stronger (in game terms) than Mirkwood elves, so, I have two questions:

1) I do understand consistence in converting rules from TOR to AiME, but in aspect of balance, do Rivendell elves really deserves such huge drawback as inability to take Heal Corruption undertaking?

In Michebugio's and Thror's AiME conversion they have one more ability score increase and two more bonus tool proficiency (IMO every culture should have some tool proficiency based on their background, but this is - again - another story) than their woodland cousins, as the Against the Unseen is easily countered by bonuses to Stealth from Whisper Through the Leaves.

Their advantage over Mirkwood Elves is only slightly greater than Dunedain's advantage over other human races, and those uber-humans do not have any drawbacks in AiME (by default).

2) How conversion of various cultures from the AiME is consistent with TOR version? Do other races had any different mechanics/bonuses/drawbacks that were changed/omitted for a sake of different game balance, different game mechanics or/and simplicity?
Last edited by Anarfin on Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: Converting High Elves of Rivendell

Post by Otaku-sempai » Mon Sep 18, 2017 11:03 pm

High Elves (by the narrowest definition) have dwelt in Aman and seen the light of the Two Trees. That gives them a spiritual component that is unmatched among other Elves or any other race of Middle-earth. In TOR they are presented as an Advanced Culture and have significant advantages over even the Elves of Mirkwood when dealing with the Shadow. A single Ringwraith (with the possible exception of the Lord of the Nazgûl--and maybe not even him until the time of the War of the Ring) would be unable to stand against a Wandering Company of High Elves without being forced to withdraw.
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