On Slayers and Warriors

The place for discussion of Cubicle 7 and Sophisticated Games' "Adventures in Middle-earth" OGL setting.
BookBarbarian
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by BookBarbarian » Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:17 pm

Mykesfree wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:43 pm
One thing we need to keep in mind with these types of discussions is are we comparing the Class to an Adventures in Middle-earth fight or a D&D fight.

In playing through almost all of Wilderland Adventures, I have noticed the fights are different than D&D since there is no area of effect magic.

Has anyone else had this experience of D&D fights feeling different than AiMe fights?
Absolutely.

With no one tossing fireballs at the party, mostly every bad guy does bludgeoning, piercing or slashing damage, so a Bear Totem Barb's Resistances would be less useful here than in 5e D&D.

Also no one tossing Sleep, or Hold Person spells means there are less things that can end a Slayer's(Barbarian's) Battle Fury(Rage) which to me makes them more powerful relative to the game then a Barbarian is to 5e D&D.

Still Combat is less important in AiME since Journeys and Audiences made the Exploration and Social pillars of the game more prominent.

If you do find a Slayer is just too tough for your average bad guy, have your goblins start poisoning they weapons. A sleep poison is doubly effective.

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Wanton
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by Wanton » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:03 pm

Sama64 wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:33 pm
one of my players wants to play a beorning slayer, but (with reason I think) finds the 2 archetypes available not suitable for beornings (beacause they usually don't mount and don't use heavy armour).
so he asks me to play a totem warrior (archetype from D&D 5) instead.
Although I am usually the LM, I have been able to join a group where I play a Beorning Slayer and I too had this same feeling.

I'm tempted to ask my Loremaster what he thinks about this option. However, he has it in his mind that I can make an off-hand attack as a bonus action, which is pretty nice ... so I may just leave well enough alone. But I'm very interested in this how it plays out for you.

I think I might would let him but require that he do the "bear" option. :ugeek:

BookBarbarian
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by BookBarbarian » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:20 pm

Wanton wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:03 pm
he has it in his mind that I can make an off-hand attack as a bonus action
As long as both weapons have the "light" property this is completely true and by the book.

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Majestic
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by Majestic » Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:47 am

In D&D 5E, the Bear totem is significantly stronger/better than the other choices, and almost a no-brainer. I'd be hesitant to allow it in AME, only because it's so amazingly strong. Though the Bear (as an animal) is the one that makes more sense, story-wise.

I could see using the Eagle totem for men from Mountain Hall, or the Wolf (calling it Hound) one for Woodmen.
Adventure Summaries of our campaign, currently playing through The Darkening of Mirkwood

Sama64
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by Sama64 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:18 am

BookBarbarian wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:17 pm
Mykesfree wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:43 pm
One thing we need to keep in mind with these types of discussions is are we comparing the Class to an Adventures in Middle-earth fight or a D&D fight.

In playing through almost all of Wilderland Adventures, I have noticed the fights are different than D&D since there is no area of effect magic.

Has anyone else had this experience of D&D fights feeling different than AiMe fights?
Absolutely.

With no one tossing fireballs at the party, mostly every bad guy does bludgeoning, piercing or slashing damage, so a Bear Totem Barb's Resistances would be less useful here than in 5e D&D.
i don't understand your point here.
For me, as there are no other kind of damage in Middle Earth (or very rare) the Bear Totem Barb's Resistances is significantly more useful in AiME than in DD5.

@Majestic : in my setting (Third Age around 1640) there are no beorning (strictly) whereas there are some people coming from the same human tribes of the north and the misty mountains (=>beijabar).
So I might accept totem warriors with animals like wolf (hound) deer, or eagle, nor bear.

Michebugio
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by Michebugio » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:03 am

Sama64 wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:18 am
BookBarbarian wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:17 pm
Mykesfree wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:43 pm
One thing we need to keep in mind with these types of discussions is are we comparing the Class to an Adventures in Middle-earth fight or a D&D fight.

In playing through almost all of Wilderland Adventures, I have noticed the fights are different than D&D since there is no area of effect magic.

Has anyone else had this experience of D&D fights feeling different than AiMe fights?
Absolutely.

With no one tossing fireballs at the party, mostly every bad guy does bludgeoning, piercing or slashing damage, so a Bear Totem Barb's Resistances would be less useful here than in 5e D&D.
i don't understand your point here.
For me, as there are no other kind of damage in Middle Earth (or very rare) the Bear Totem Barb's Resistances is significantly more useful in AiME than in DD5.

@Majestic : in my setting (Third Age around 1640) there are no beorning (strictly) whereas there are some people coming from the same human tribes of the north and the misty mountains (=>beijabar).
So I might accept totem warriors with animals like wolf (hound) deer, or eagle, nor bear.
What BookBarbarian is saying is that the Bear Totem granting resistance to fire, cold, lightning, poison, radiant and necrotic damage on top of the three physical damage types is not as useful as in D&D, since in AiME the only damage types other than bludgeoning, piercing and slashing that your players will be hit with are poison and (very rarely) necrotic.

In D&D, there are a lot of monsters tossing out elemental damage, so barbarian's resistance is more or less applicable to 50% of the incoming damage. In AiME, it's applicable to 90% of the damage, which it makes a little too good for my taste. A dwarf Slayer in AiME is practically resistant to ALL damage, while in a fury!

That's why I ruled in my campaign that Slayers, while raging, are resistant to bludgeoning, piercing and slashing damage coming from MELEE weapons. I think about the resistance from the rage more as "rolling with the blows" than sheer toughness, and while you can roll with a troll's slam, there's usually no mitigation from arrow wounds other than your armour.
This essentially makes it more in line with the efficacy of a Barbarian within a D&D setting, taking also into account the fact that ranged attacks are usually less powerful than melee (in AiME, the heavy hitters are trolls and the bigger orcs, that rarely or never use ranged attacks).
Slayer will then have to watch out for those pesky goblin archers like everybody else (and that's why it's always wise to take down the archers first, in a battle).

BookBarbarian
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by BookBarbarian » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:08 pm

Michebugio wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:03 am
What BookBarbarian is saying is that the Bear Totem granting resistance to fire, cold, lightning, poison, radiant and necrotic damage on top of the three physical damage types is not as useful as in D&D, since in AiME the only damage types other than bludgeoning, piercing and slashing that your players will be hit with are poison and (very rarely) necrotic.
Exactly.

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Majestic
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by Majestic » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:38 pm

When you're considering potential totems, all, you might consider the ones from other books, too (I think they're in Volo's), like the tiger and elk.
Adventure Summaries of our campaign, currently playing through The Darkening of Mirkwood

BookBarbarian
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by BookBarbarian » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:49 pm

Majestic wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:38 pm
When you're considering potential totems, all, you might consider the ones from other books, too (I think they're in Volo's), like the tiger and elk.
Tiger and Elk are in The Sword Coast Adventurer's guide. I think they're pretty thematic without being overpowered, in fact they are probably a step or two behind Wolf and Bear, pretty even with Eagle Totem.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by Otaku-sempai » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:31 pm

Majestic wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:38 pm
When you're considering potential totems, all, you might consider the ones from other books, too (I think they're in Volo's), like the tiger and elk.
Not a bad suggestion, though the totems should be limited to creatures that would reasonably be found in the local area (unless members of the Culture are recent immigrants). I would only expect to see a Tiger Totem Warrior as part of a Culture with ties to the East. But I also have lions in the Blue Mountains.

Recently I was considering potential animal totems for the Lossoth:
- Bear
- Caribou
- Cave bear
- Eagle
- Elk
- Fox
- Great elk (Irish elk)
- Giant Owl
- Lynx
- Woolly oliphaunt (Mammoth)
- Narwhal
- Orca
- Owl
- Polar bear
- Salmon
- Seal
- Walrus
- Wolf

I considered woolly rhinoceros, but I've rejected it. The same for the hill lions I placed in the Blue Mountains.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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