On Slayers and Warriors

The place for discussion of Cubicle 7 and Sophisticated Games' "Adventures in Middle-earth" OGL setting.
BookBarbarian
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by BookBarbarian » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:37 pm

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:31 pm
Majestic wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:38 pm
When you're considering potential totems, all, you might consider the ones from other books, too (I think they're in Volo's), like the tiger and elk.
Not a bad suggestion, though the totems should be limited to creatures that would reasonably be found in the local area (unless members of the Culture are recent immigrants). I would only expect to see a Tiger Totem Warrior as part of a Culture with ties to the East. But I also have lions in the Blue Mountains.

Recently I was considering potential animal totems for the Lossoth:
- Bear
- Caribou
- Cave bear
- Eagle
- Elk
- Fox
- Great elk (Irish elk)
- Giant Owl
- Lynx
- Woolly oliphaunt (Mammoth)
- Narwhal
- Orca
- Owl
- Polar bear
- Salmon
- Seal
- Walrus
- Wolf

I considered woolly rhinoceros, but I've rejected it. The same for the hill lions I placed in the Blue Mountains.
Owls, and Carribou can easily be reskinned Eagles and Elks.

Likewise I've found in my 5e game that mixing and matching Totems can be a great way of to make new animal totems. like Elk, Eagle, Eagle makes a good Griffin, or Bear, Bear, Elk makes a good Elephant/Mammoth.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by Otaku-sempai » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:54 pm

BookBarbarian wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:37 pm
Owls, and Carribou can easily be reskinned Eagles and Elks.
Yes, though there may be some unique characteristics associated with certain types of creatures, such as silent flight or night-vision with owls. Some creatures could be grouped by characteristics that they have in common. The totems for such animals would share some common features.
Likewise I've found in my 5e game that mixing and matching Totems can be a great way of to make new animal totems. like Elk, Eagle, Eagle makes a good Griffin, or Bear, Bear, Elk makes a good Elephant/Mammoth.
We should probably not have Griffins, Gorgons or Harpies in Middle-earth unless we can give them a unique tweak that sets them apart from the more familiar versions (as was done with the Basilisk/Sarnlug).
Last edited by Otaku-sempai on Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

BookBarbarian
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by BookBarbarian » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:54 pm
We should probably not have Griffins, Gorgons or Harpies in Middle-earth unless we can give them a unique tweak that sets them apart from the more familiar versions.
Definitely I was only using griffons as an example of what can be done with the existing options, not what should be done with them.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:01 am

I understand and suspected as much. 8-)
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

Michebugio
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by Michebugio » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:50 am

Majestic wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:38 pm
When you're considering potential totems, all, you might consider the ones from other books, too (I think they're in Volo's), like the tiger and elk.
I think that the Elk Totem may be quite appropriate for Mirkwood Elves Slayers, both in terms of abilities and theme. I would rename it Stag Totem, however.

Neither the Rider nor the Foehammer seem fitting choices for an Elf Slayer: wood elves don't ride (not in the depths of the Woodland Realm, at least) and they don't wear heavy armours, so we're essentially lacking a thematically appropriate path (one might argue that an Elf Slayer would be odd in the first place, but I don't think so: we're talking about Slayers, not Barbarians. A Battle-fury may turn an elf into a cold killer, rather than into a screaming madman, and elves have plenty of reasons to be Slayers of orcs or wargs).

Also, deer hunting is one of their favoured activities and has an almost ritualistic importance in their culture. The White Stag is the most prized game an elven hunter can get, so to me it comes natural to think about elven Slayers sharing an affinity with these strong, fast and beautiful animals.

The Tiger totem, as the other folks already said, may be more appropriate for peoples from the far East (or the south, renaming it Lion Totem), even though in the case of an Easterlings playable culture I would find the Rider the most suitable path.

BookBarbarian
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by BookBarbarian » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:05 pm

Michebugio wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:50 am

I think that the Elk Totem may be quite appropriate for Mirkwood Elves Slayers, both in terms of abilities and theme. I would rename it Stag Totem, however.
Agree on both counts.
Michebugio wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:50 am
Neither the Rider nor the Foehammer seem fitting choices for an Elf Slayer: wood elves don't ride (not in the depths of the Woodland Realm, at least) and they don't wear heavy armours
While generally true, Legolas does take a Mail Shirt from Edoras and presumably wears it in all battles afterward. This could be represented as a Corslet of Mail (that's how I would think of it), but I wouldn't say it was "wrong" to think of it as Heavy mail. So I don't think it's that out there to consider a Heavy Armored Wood-Elf.

Also remember a Foehammer in Medium Armor doesn't have stealth disadvantage, so I wouldn't assume that just because a Slayer went Foehammer that they would automatically want Heavy Armor. For some +2 AC might not be worth the hit to Stealth.
Michebugio wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:50 am
so we're essentially lacking a thematically appropriate path (one might argue that an Elf Slayer would be odd in the first place, but I don't think so: we're talking about Slayers, not Barbarians. A Battle-fury may turn an elf into a cold killer, rather than into a screaming madman, and elves have plenty of reasons to be Slayers of orcs or wargs).
Even in 5e there was nothing that limited Barbarians from being cold-killers. Rage (the ability) does not necessarily mean anger. It could be and likely is for most Berserkers, but for Totem Warriors a Primal urge to survive like in a wild animal has always made more sense to me. Likewise Ancestral Guardians, Storm Heralds, and Zealots have more spiritual, elemental, and divine driven Rage, rather than anger driven.
Michebugio wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:50 am
Also, deer hunting is one of their favoured activities and has an almost ritualistic importance in their culture. The White Stag is the most prized game an elven hunter can get, so to me it comes natural to think about elven Slayers sharing an affinity with these strong, fast and beautiful animals.
Again, totally agree.
Michebugio wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:50 am
The Tiger totem, as the other folks already said, may be more appropriate for peoples from the far East (or the south, renaming it Lion Totem), even though in the case of an Easterlings playable culture I would find the Rider the most suitable path.
Agreed, but Tiger refluffed as a Lynx would work for Lossoth or other northern cultures too.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:17 pm

BookBarbarian wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:05 pm
Michebugio wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:50 am
The Tiger totem, as the other folks already said, may be more appropriate for peoples from the far East (or the south, renaming it Lion Totem), even though in the case of an Easterlings playable culture I would find the Rider the most suitable path.
Agreed, but Tiger refluffed as a Lynx would work for Lossoth or other northern cultures too.
If we wanted to make that a big cat for the Lossoth, we could change that to Giant Lynx or to my 'Hill Lion' that dwells in the northern Ered Luin. We could include Snow Leopard, but that seems a bit 'off' as something that would be more appropriate to mountain ranges east of the Misty Mountains and Rhovanion. In any case, totems for leopards, jaguars and panthers in general should reflect their superior climbing abilities (what can I say? I like cats!).
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

BookBarbarian
Posts: 400
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by BookBarbarian » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:18 pm

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:17 pm
If we wanted to make that a big cat for the Lossoth, we could change that to Giant Lynx or to my 'Hill Lion' that dwells in the northern Ered Luin. We could include Snow Leopard, but that seems a bit 'off' as something that would be more appropriate to mountain ranges east of the Misty Mountains and Rhovanion.
There's really not much about Tiger totem that screams "big" cat. It gets a Jump, Some Nature related skill proficiencies and a pounce/charge. It's pretty easy to skin different ways.
Otaku-sempai wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:17 pm
In any case, totems for leopards, jaguars and panthers in general should reflect their superior climbing abilities (what can I say? I like cats!).
Climbing speed would be both thematic and more useful than some of the Tiger stuff. I say go for it.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:39 pm

BookBarbarian wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:18 pm
Climbing speed would be both thematic and more useful than some of the Tiger stuff. I say go for it.
I would also apply that to most, if not all, small cats including the lynx, bobcats and wildcats.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

padraigmac
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Re: On Slayers and Warriors

Post by padraigmac » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:40 pm

No mountain lions in Middle-Earth to reskin Tiger into? I'd think the place would be lousy with them! (Certainly BC, where I live, is)

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