advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

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MrUkpyr
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by MrUkpyr » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:04 pm

I am also unsure how exhaustion works in relation to travel.

I've been pretty much *hand-waving it* by saying that so long as they can get a "good" rest every day or three, then they can avoid exhaustion, but they gain none of the rules of a "long rest" unless they are in a safe place where they can take a long rest.

I have also been saying that unless they are in a safe place where they could take a long rest, the elves are not able to get the benefits of a long rest even if they could do their cool "elven sleep" effect.

BUT I really want to better understand how the rules are supposed to work.

I know that travelling through difficult or hazardous terrain means it is easier to gain exhaustion, but how does it work and how much exhaustion is gained?
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zedturtle
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by zedturtle » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:13 pm

Exhaustion is gained as a consequence of failing certain Journey Events, and other circumstances in which the Loremaster deems that gaining a level of Exhaustion is warranted. The Journey Events state when a level of Exhaustion is gained (for example, failing A Fine Spot for a Camp causes the companions to gain a level of Exhaustion).

Exhaustion is recovered by taking a long rest and consuming some food and water at the same time, by magical healing or by other means that the Loremaster deems would fit. Certain Journey Events allow you to recover a level of Exhaustion. Some events allow heroes who have a marginal success to recover a level of Exhaustion even without a long rest with all the other attendant benefits being allowed.

If the Company is not on the Road (i.e. on a Journey) then it's up to the Loremaster to determine whether or not long rests are allowed. If the companion is able to take a long rest (and eat/drink) then they can recover a level of Exhaustion.
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MrUkpyr
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by MrUkpyr » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:26 pm

zedturtle wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:13 pm
Exhaustion is gained as a consequence of failing certain Journey Events, and other circumstances in which the Loremaster deems that gaining a level of Exhaustion is warranted. The Journey Events state when a level of Exhaustion is gained (for example, failing A Fine Spot for a Camp causes the companions to gain a level of Exhaustion).
SNIPPAGE
So, as an example, my players avoided Mirkwood by going north and around via the Grey Mountains Narrows when travelling to Dale.

They did not have any Journey Events which would give them exhaustion, but they also did not find anywhere to safely take a Long Rest.

*Should* they have gained any levels of exhaustion simply from making the journey? If they should have, where would I find the rules for how much? (page number references for where would be appreciated).

NOTE: I have been GMing for ages (over 20 years), but my introduction to D&D 5e has been via AiME.

Thanks.
MrUkpyr
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zedturtle
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by zedturtle » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:17 am

If nothing occurred on the Journey to cause Exhaustion then the heroes would not gain Exhaustion. They are, after all, taking what rest they can on the Road... Exhaustion represents extraordinary fatigue over and above the usual rigors of travelling in the Wild.

Of course, you as Loremaster can overrule this. If they decide to brave the Grey Mountain Narrows during winter then you might declare that such a venture awards a level of Exhaustion over and above what might be accrued by Journey Events.
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dumhed
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by dumhed » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:36 am

I guess for me, the question is not the exhaustion on the journey. That seems fairly clear in the rules.. based on journey events, etc. The question for me is exhaustion after the journey is over, during the Adventure Phase. It is easy to imagine Adventure Phases that may take more than a day. If, for instance, for whatever reason they end up in Moria, heaven forbid... It might take some time to make it through. Or some other area that requires days or even longer to explore and investigate.

How long on an adventure phase without a proper long rest would you rule that the heroes take a point of exhaustion? Every 3 days? Or, does having "short rest" nights do enough to hold off exhaustion? I don't think 5e specifies what happens with the lack of long rests.

If, for the sake of not killing them all by tiredness, you need to provide an opportunity for a long rest, would you give a full long rest with all its benefits? Or something modified? Like, regaining hit dice but not abilities? And only healing as much as allowed by spent hit dice?

I guess it also seems challenging on players that they might have special abilities that they can only use once throughout a course of an adventure phase if there is no opportunity to recharge it. But perhaps this forces players to make hard choices.

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zedturtle
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by zedturtle » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:14 am

Environmental hazards such as starvation or long term exposure to freezing or scorching temperatures can cause a hero to gain Exhaustion. The Loremaster is always free to determine that the conditions warrant gaining a level of Exhaustion or that the heroes have taken efforts worthy of recovering a level of Exhaustion.

Or, to put it more plainly, there’s nothing in the rules that requires you to hand out Exhaustion during the Adventuring phase, but there’s nothing preventing you from doing so, if you think that the situation warrants it (eg if you think the situation closely resembles a situation that the rules say would cause you to gain Exhaustion).
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Enevhar Aldarion
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by Enevhar Aldarion » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:26 am

Try not to compare short and long rests from 5E D&D to AiME, as the standard version is not what is used. The default length in 5E is 1 hour for a short rest and 8 hours for a long rest. But AiME looks to the variant rest rule in the DMG for length. In the DMG, there is a "gritty realism" variant that makes a short rest 8 hours and a long rest one week. It is page 267 for anyone with the book. There is also a "slow healing" variant rule on that page that I think C7 used when writing the rules for AiME.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by Otaku-sempai » Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:53 pm

Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:26 am
Try not to compare short and long rests from 5E D&D to AiME, as the standard version is not what is used. The default length in 5E is 1 hour for a short rest and 8 hours for a long rest. But AiME looks to the variant rest rule in the DMG for length. In the DMG, there is a "gritty realism" variant that makes a short rest 8 hours and a long rest one week. It is page 267 for anyone with the book. There is also a "slow healing" variant rule on that page that I think C7 used when writing the rules for AiME.
I know that this has been much debated in the past. Where is this explicitly stated for AiMe?
Last edited by Otaku-sempai on Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Scarytincan
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by Scarytincan » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:42 pm

Correct me if I am wrong but I am kind of getting a feeling that you might be wondering about the point of exhaustion and its affects on arrival if arrival correlates with a fellowship phase and immediately removing all exhaustion in most cases, in which case I would like to highlight that during an adventure there can be multiple embarkation and arrival rolls before getting somewhere fellowship phase friendly.

If I am making wild and totally off base assumptions, disregard me completely! This is just something I have had to make sure I pay attention to when running my game, as the WA book doesn't always specify MAKE ARRIVAL ROLL HERE but in some chapters such as kinstrife there are a few good places to consider an arrival time, even if they weren't planned /expected by the party followed by another embarkation

Enevhar Aldarion
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by Enevhar Aldarion » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:43 pm

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:53 pm
Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:26 am
Try not to compare short and long rests from 5E D&D to AiME, as the standard version is not what is used. The default length in 5E is 1 hour for a short rest and 8 hours for a long rest. But AiME looks to the variant rest rule in the DMG for length. In the DMG, there is a "gritty realism" variant that makes a short rest 8 hours and a long rest one week. It is page 267 for anyone with the book. There is also a "slow healing" variant rule on that page that I think C7 used when writing the rules for AiME.
I know that this has been much debated in the past. Where is this explicitly stated for AiMe?
I am just going on a personal comparison of the systems, as I do not think anyone from C7 has ever specifically said anything on it and I do not think they have ever released any designers notes for AiME. Also, I do not think they would be able to come out and specifically say they used the variant rest system from the DMG as I do not think it is part of the 5E OGL. So they basically had to take the idea and put a Middle Earth spin on it to make it enough different that they were not directly using something from a book that was not also in the OGL.

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