advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

The place for discussion of Cubicle 7 and Sophisticated Games' "Adventures in Middle-earth" OGL setting.
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zedturtle
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by zedturtle » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:23 pm

Adventures in Middle-earth is built on the foundation of the core rules. Loremasters are, of course, free to add additional rules from other sources, but they will want to weigh carefully the impact of such additions.
Jacob Rodgers, occasional nitwit.

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Enevhar Aldarion
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by Enevhar Aldarion » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:12 pm

zedturtle wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:23 pm
Adventures in Middle-earth is built on the foundation of the core rules. Loremasters are, of course, free to add additional rules from other sources, but they will want to weigh carefully the impact of such additions.
True. But more specifically it is based on the OGL, which itself does not include everything from the 5E PHB or DMG. And will probably never include any material released in the supplemental books like Xanathar's. So yes, using any of that extra material is purely at the option of each LM.

monje29
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by monje29 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:32 pm

For my AIME is a game whose system arises from the official regulation of D & D 5e which has been later added its own rules as if it were a Lore Master (transferred from TOR) or where others(rules) have been expanded. Have all these additions been weighed by the creators/LMs of AIME on the basic system? Judging by the posts and doubts of the people in the forum it seems that there are added aspects that generate some confusion and discontent and for that we are here: to try to shed some light on the confusing issues and offer possible interpretations and alternatives.
Peace.
Last edited by monje29 on Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Wanton
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by Wanton » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:16 pm

Excellent summary, this was what I was looking for when I was introduce to the "journey phase".
monje29 wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:33 am
RESTS on d&d 5e

RESTS on AIME (Textual:Rests in AIME work as they do in the core rules with one exception: during journeys the characters may not take a long rest.

a)Journey phase: During Journeys no long rest available( My interpretation of "no long rest" on journeys = No HD/HP gain and no exhaustion recovery but ALSO no exhaustion gained as a consequence of "Going without long rest". As I see it, characters during journeys may "Long rest"(even 8h long) but not enough to gain the full benefits of "Natural Healing" ( "Journeys are dangerous, challenging and tiring. Also the importance of Sanctuaries heightens")
Perhaps something like: "Rests in AIME work as in the Core rules with 1 exception:during journeys, when Player-Heroes may rest(Long or short) BUT they won't gain the full benefits of a Long Rest" would have led to a better understanding of this deeper interpretation of the resting rules.

b)Adventuring phase
Short Rest:As in Core rules.
Long Rest: As in Core Rules + LM Requisites based on "generosity":
a)Less generous Lm:Only a night in a bed in a safe place.
b)More Generous Lm: Safety,comfort and tranquility (AIME Pg.51).

c)Fellowship Phase: Full Long Rest allowed

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zedturtle
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by zedturtle » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:38 pm

monje29 wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:32 pm
For my AIME is a game whose system arises from the official regulation of D & D 5e which has been later added its own rules as if it were a Lore Master (transferred from TOR) or where others(rules) have been expanded. Have all these additions been weighed by the creators/LMs of AIME on the basic system? Judging by the posts and doubts of the people in the forum it seems that there are added aspects that generate some confusion and discontent and for that we are here: to try to shed some light on the confusing issues and offer possible interpretations and alternatives.
Peace.
For clarity, I am a member of the development team. We recognize that Journeys (and resting) differs in Adventures in Middle-earth from the expectations in the core rules, which is why I’ve been trying to clarify things in this thread.
Jacob Rodgers, occasional nitwit.

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Wanton
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by Wanton » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:44 pm

zedturtle wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:38 pm


For clarity, I am a member of the development team. We recognize that Journeys (and resting) differs in Adventures in Middle-earth from the expectations in the core rules, which is why I’ve been trying to clarify things in this thread.
Jacob,

And you have cleared up a bunch of stuff here, but let me ask a few more questions.

1. If a character accumulates one or two levels of exhaustion from the Journey phase, is the expectation that player must go through the entire adventure phase with exhaustion penalties?
2. If traveling as part of the adventure phase, as long as they "camp" (i.e., rest for 6 to 8 hours and have food and water) they are not expected to gain more levels of exhaustion, are they?
3. If presented with a chase (either trying to run from or catch the bad guy) in the adventure phase, how often is exhaustion supposed to be factor. I mean with level six being that you just die, that is something best avoided.

Thank you very much for assisting us with the questions! :ugeek:

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ThrorII
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by ThrorII » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:47 pm

Wanton wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:44 pm
1. If a character accumulates one or two levels of exhaustion from the Journey phase, is the expectation that player must go through the entire adventure phase with exhaustion penalties?
2. If traveling as part of the adventure phase, as long as they "camp" (i.e., rest for 6 to 8 hours and have food and water) they are not expected to gain more levels of exhaustion, are they?
3. If presented with a chase (either trying to run from or catch the bad guy) in the adventure phase, how often is exhaustion supposed to be factor. I mean with level six being that you just die, that is something best avoided.

Thank you very much for assisting us with the questions! :ugeek:
I'm not a dev or a mod, but this is how I see it:

1. Journey rules supersede 5e travel rules. AiMe states essentially that, while 'on the road' (ie: traveling) you cannot mechanically benefit from a long rest (even though you may be 'resting' 8 hours every travel day). While on the journey, certain events can increase your exhaustion level. When the journey is completed (you are at your destination, or decide to end your journey) the player-hero may have earned a level (or a few levels) of exhaustion. Those levels are the 'start' level for the adventure/encounter that is occurring after the journey.

Now, some events during a journey might allow for 1 or more mechanical 'long rests' (camping in an old elf-encampment, for example). But, shy of special exceptions, you don't loose your exhaustion levels.

If the end of the journey is a Sanctuary, or a place they could be expected to get a 'good nights rest' (ie: an Inn, safe farmstead, town, etc.) then they may take long rests and recover exhaustion levels. I interpret the rule of thumb as 'sleeping in a bed, having comfy chairs to sit in, good hot food to eat, staying warm and dry, and not worrying about being attacked in the middle of the night.'

2. If the end of the journey is essentially just another camp site (ie: journeying from Lake-town to the Greydelve in the Grey Mountains (see the Rhovanion Region Guide), then they will still be 'on the road' (and not have access to warm beds, soft chairs, safe nights sleep, and will still be eating trail rations). Those characters would not be able to recover exhaustion earned in the journey phase, but would not earn any more, as long as they had enough to eat, enough to drink, and got their 8 hour rests daily during the adventure/encounter.

3. That being said, actions taken during the adventure (after the journey) could cause the player to have to make Constitution checks to avoid additional exhaustion. Those above-mentioned player-heroes who traveled to the Greydelve might earn exhaustion climbing tall peaks or being chased by a pack of Wargs...

I hope I was clear enough and was able to answer your questions.

BookBarbarian
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by BookBarbarian » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:13 pm

There are also ways to remove a level of exhaustion, like a Good arrival roll.

I could also see it happening on a chance encounter with Gandalf, Glorfindel, or some other Inspiring person.

Are there any Class features that remove exhaustion? If not, that could be an interesting design space to work in.

padraigmac
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by padraigmac » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:03 pm

Is it safe to say that task rolls on journeys do not suffer the effects of exhaustion? (Disadvantage on skill checks - 1 level of exhaustion). Nor does journey time? (Speed halved - 2 levels of exhaustion)

I'm currently ruling that neither are effected but I'm curious what others think. I think you could very quickly get into an exhaustion spiral and wipe out a party if they suffer these effects while journeying.

Note: I'm not suggesting they remove levels of exhaustion just that they don't suffer the specific effects while journeying.

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Anarfin
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Re: advice on exhaustion and rest on adventures

Post by Anarfin » Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:57 pm

padraigmac wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:03 pm
Is it safe to say that task rolls on journeys do not suffer the effects of exhaustion? (Disadvantage on skill checks - 1 level of exhaustion). Nor does journey time? (Speed halved - 2 levels of exhaustion)

I'm currently ruling that neither are effected but I'm curious what others think. I think you could very quickly get into an exhaustion spiral and wipe out a party if they suffer these effects while journeying.

Note: I'm not suggesting they remove levels of exhaustion just that they don't suffer the specific effects while journeying.
In case of Sam and Frodo exhaustion levels surely affected their travelling speed and skill checks, so I would not remove such rules. Yes, it was miracle that they have prevailed, and without Gollum and his knowledge of Mordor they would probably fail :)
I can see the danger of exhaustion spiral, but hey - that's a danger of perilous journeys.
You have to plan it carefully, be ready to abort the journey, use the Inspiration and have enough people in the party to assign two persons to crucial roles during journey to get advantage/remove disadvantage.

Other thing is a Wanderer and his skills. You should not have problem travelling well known paths in moderately difficult terrain/civilised lands without one, but journey to Angmar during winter should not be undertaken by band of merry Hobbit Scholars and Treasure Hunters but with company of at least one seasoned Wanderer who know those lands. If the heroes not have such person in their party, they should find him and get his help.

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