Non Beorning Beornings

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quincypostman
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Non Beorning Beornings

Post by quincypostman » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:02 pm

Would you allow a non-beornish mannish race to declare themselves Beorning culturally, but, because they only did so within the past 5 years, have a virtue of their original race? Say a man of gondor, who left Minas Tirith to join the beornings, but wanted to have the steely gaze virtue, +/- to attributes, , and starting skills, etc. I imagine starting wealth should still be based on the Beorning culture.

Thanks in advance,
QP

Otaku-sempai
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Re: Non Beorning Beornings

Post by Otaku-sempai » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:22 pm

quincypostman wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:02 pm
Would you allow a non-beornish mannish race to declare themselves Beorning culturally, but, because they only did so within the past 5 years, have a virtue of their original race? Say a man of gondor, who left Minas Tirith to join the beornings, but wanted to have the steely gaze virtue, +/- to attributes, , and starting skills, etc. I imagine starting wealth should still be based on the Beorning culture.

Thanks in advance,
QP
I'm not sure that I would allow it as in the year 2946 this would have described ALL Beornings other than Beorn himself. The Beornings did not exist as a Culture until after the Battle of Five Armies and the following Yuletide. But this would be the call of an individual Loremaster; if an exception makes sense then allow it.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

Dirk89stensrud
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Re: Non Beorning Beornings

Post by Dirk89stensrud » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:46 pm

I would probably suggest that they build a Man of Minas Tirith and then tell him to join the Beornings as an undertaking of some sort

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ThrorII
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Re: Non Beorning Beornings

Post by ThrorII » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:49 pm

Seems like a case of min-maxing to me. The player wants the stats of a Man of Minas Tirith with the beginning virtues, and the virtues of a Beorning after level 1 (or maybe being able to chose between both culture's virtues later on).

I wouldn't allow it.

Wanton
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Re: Non Beorning Beornings

Post by Wanton » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:31 pm

QP,

Can you clarify what he wants to gain from declaring himself a Beorning?

So he starts off as a Man of Gondor but then does what?

Is it as ThrorII suggest, and the player just wants to gain the best of both Cultures?

:ugeek:

quincypostman
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Re: Non Beorning Beornings

Post by quincypostman » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:35 am

To start off, I'll say I have nothing against the Beorning culture and how they're set up. I was basically thinking about the Beorning culture as a whole.

First off, as I understand it, there was not a beorning culture prior to the Bo5A. So, as the ph mentions, he attracted mountain-hunters and fighters without allegience. I interpret this as being people for other cultures... woodmen, hillmen, dunlendings, lake men, bardings,people of rohan, gondorians, etc. Or, would they only be made up of people from the Vale of Anduin... shepherds, farmers, trappers, hunters, etc.

If they're made up of the former, then when would they stop being (a man of gondor), and a become follower of Beorn? Five years isn't a lot of time. If the latter, then I guess it wouldn't matter, and they'd all be of the same stock.

I don't know that I'd ever allow this... like I said, it was just thinking about it.

Thanks,
QP

quincypostman
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Re: Non Beorning Beornings

Post by quincypostman » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:40 am

Wanton wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:31 pm
QP,

Can you clarify what he wants to gain from declaring himself a Beorning?

So he starts off as a Man of Gondor but then does what?

Is it as ThrorII suggest, and the player just wants to gain the best of both Cultures?

:ugeek:
I am just thinking said gondorian has become disenfranchised with life in minas tirith. Maybe it's a scholar with a fascination of beorn, goes up to learn all he can about beorn and his people, and decides to join them. Or, in another example, a dunlending is tired of the rohirrim always taking their land from them, and decides, after hearing of his expoits, travels up the Anduin and becomes a follower of beorn.

I'm just trying to determine what sort of people would make up the beornings, them being such a new culture.

Glorelendil
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Re: Non Beorning Beornings

Post by Glorelendil » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:59 am

What would King Solomon do?

Probably tell the player, "Ok, we can do that. Except Twice-Baked Honey Cakes won't be available as a virtue."

If the player still wants to do it, go ahead and let him, and let him have the Honey Cakes, too.
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ThrorII
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Re: Non Beorning Beornings

Post by ThrorII » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:47 am

While there was no 'Beorning' culture 5 years prior in game time, that doesn't mean there was not already a group of people there with a shared culture that was 'Beorning-like'. I see those that took Beorn as their chieftain (Beornings, in game terms) has having lived in the Vales of the Anduin for generations. Beorn even says that his people came from the Mountains before the Goblins came.

Same goes for the Bardings. There were no Bardings prior to the Battle of the Five Armies. Tolkien writes how the lands were desolate and deserted, but after the dragon's dead, people seem to 'spring up' and flock to Bard's banner. I see that as proof that while leaderless, there was a shared-culture group between Mirkwood and the Iron Hills, as far south as the River Running, that existed to become 'Bardings'. Otherwise, where the heck did these similar peoples come from?

Tolkien does not write about populations and demographics. Take Rohan for example. Based on his descriptions, you wouldn't think Rohan could muster 12,000 horse warriors!! But we know they can, because he tells us so.

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ThrorII
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Re: Non Beorning Beornings

Post by ThrorII » Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:55 am

Another thing, as I pointed out in the concurrent Audience thread. Middle-earth is a dark age collection of cultures. People don't trust strangers or other cultures. So, it is not likely that Beorn is chieftain of a mismatched group of people (say 10% woodman, 16% Gondorian, 1% Dunedain, 13% Barding, etc.). If so, their tolerance of strangers would be much, much higher--they are ALL strangers! But, instead, they have a uniform feeling about other cultures, that seems to have a correlation to where they are located on the map. This also lends itself to the idea that the 'Beornings' are a shared culture of the Anduin Vale, who now just acknowledge Beorn as their leader.

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