Nazgul and water

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Halbarad
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Re: Nazgul and water

Post by Halbarad » Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:15 pm

Indeed Dunheved, it it perfectly reasonable. I reckon that while 'actual' Elvish waters may represent a physical barrier to Wraiths and possibly even cause them harm, any running water would represent a psychological barrier to them that can only be overcome by the use of Hate points.

The Warding/Barrier number applied would be up to the individual LM, based on the likelihood of how Elvish it might be.

Glad to have been of help.🙂

Enevhar Aldarion
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Re: Nazgul and water

Post by Enevhar Aldarion » Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:54 pm

Flowing water also has both a real and symbolic cleansing effect, the washing away of the bad. They were willing to enter the slow, sluggish flow of water to pursue Frodo, but the fast flow that was summoned washed them away. At the ford, the water would not have been moving all that swiftly, but it was probably too deep there for them to try and safely cross on their mounts. The depth, width, and swiftness of flow would factor into any rulings/lore I came up with. Being Elvish somehow would only be a secondary factor for me.

On a side note, there is a severe lack of flowing water in Mordor. Was there any non-frozen over flowing water in Angmar to hinder the Witch King?

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Majestic
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Re: Nazgul and water

Post by Majestic » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:15 pm

It sounds like the Witch-King isn't as bothered by water as the other Nazgul.

Great discussion on this topic, and excellent thread! Now for those of us using Adventures in Middle-earth, being as the adversaries don't have Hate points, I'm wondering what mechanic I could use to simulate this reluctance of certain enemies to cross running water?
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Otaku-sempai
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Re: Nazgul and water

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:23 pm

Few fords, unless the river was running high, should have hindered the Nazgûl solely on account of their depth; the nature of a ford is that it is shallow enough to cross. The Witch-king seems to have been far less affected by running water than the rest of the Nine and did not share their aversion.
Enevhar Aldarion wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 6:54 pm
On a side note, there is a severe lack of flowing water in Mordor. Was there any non-frozen over flowing water in Angmar to hinder the Witch King?
There seem to have been no major waterways in Angmar, west of the Misty Mountains. East of the mountains, the Anduin started out in Angmar as the River Greylin and other mountain streams, joining with the R. Langwell to become the Langflood.

Mordor has several major rivers that all flow into the inner sea of Nurnen. However, none of them pass through the arid plain of Gorgoroth.

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"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

Halbarad
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Re: Nazgul and water

Post by Halbarad » Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:16 pm

"Great discussion on this topic, and excellent thread! Now for those of us using Adventures in Middle-earth, being as the adversaries don't have Hate points, I'm wondering what mechanic I could use to simulate this reluctance of certain enemies to cross running water?"

I would suggest that a trait be attached onto the entity's stat box. Fear of Water. In any round where the entity finds itself in running water, or has to cross running water, it finds itself at Disadvantage on any and all rolls required in that round.

Also, the barrier aspect might just be a Wisdom test against a DC set by the LM.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: Nazgul and water

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:49 pm

Halbarad wrote:
Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:16 pm
"Great discussion on this topic, and excellent thread! Now for those of us using Adventures in Middle-earth, being as the adversaries don't have Hate points, I'm wondering what mechanic I could use to simulate this reluctance of certain enemies to cross running water?"

I would suggest that a trait be attached onto the entity's stat box. Fear of Water. In any round where the entity finds itself in running water, or has to cross running water, it finds itself at Disadvantage on any and all rolls required in that round.

Also, the barrier aspect might just be a Wisdom test against a DC set by the LM.
Along those lines, the D&D 5e Vampire has the weakness: Harmed by Running Water. The vampire takes 20 acid damage if it ends its turn in running water.

And the Fire Elemental suffers from: Water Susceptibility. For every 5 feet the elemental moves in water, or for every gallon of water splashed on it, it takes 1 cold damage. That might not be applicable to a Ringwraith.

What is the approach taken with the Gibbet King for AiMe?
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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Majestic
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Re: Nazgul and water

Post by Majestic » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:10 pm

Thanks for the input!

Wilderland Adventures doesn't seem to have any similar weakness for the Gibbet King. He's resistant to Cold damage, and they detail what happens with fire, but I don't see any mention at all about water.
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Otaku-sempai
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Re: Nazgul and water

Post by Otaku-sempai » Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:42 pm

Majestic wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:10 pm
Wilderland Adventures doesn't seem to have any similar weakness for the Gibbet King. He's resistant to Cold damage, and they detail what happens with fire, but I don't see any mention at all about water.
That's interesting. In "The Crossings of Celduin" in Tales from Wilderland (original printing) we have (SPOILER WARNING, highlight to read):

"Another way to destroy the host body of the Gibbet King could be to throw the cart into the Running River... Once his host body is immersed in the waters of the River Running, the Gibbet King loses its grip on the material world and is forced to flee."

SPOILER ENDS

Might this have been dropped from the hardcover edition?
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

Dunheved
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Re: Nazgul and water

Post by Dunheved » Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:02 am

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:42 pm

Might this have been dropped from the hardcover edition?
No the hardcover is the same as the softcover.

(EDIT: I think I have messed up the quoting somehow here! Apologies )
2nd EDIT: Hopefully this is better. Apologies again to both Majestic and Otaku-sempai. Thanks for your understanding!
Last edited by Dunheved on Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: Nazgul and water

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:58 pm

Dunheved wrote:
Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:02 am
(EDIT: I think I have messed up the quoting somehow here! Apologies )
Yes, you did. You attributed part of Majestic's post to me. You can go back and fix it if you want, but it's not a big deal. :lol:
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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