Economic System

The unique One Ring rules set invites tinkering and secondary creation. Whilst The One Ring works brilliantly as written, we provide this forum for those who want to make their own home-brewed versions of the rules. Note that none of these should be taken as 'official'.
Bocephas
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Re: Economic System

Post by Bocephas » Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:27 am

As for the "chart and table" approach, my goal was to keep the document as short as possible (yet it still hit 50+ pages). A narrative style, with lots of explanatory paragraphs, would have made it even longer. Although I realize the charts and tables may make it a little hard to comprehend (and dry to read). Posting it here gives me a chance to talk it out and make sure it's understandable to the average reader.

Kirppu
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Re: Economic System

Post by Kirppu » Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:22 pm

Wow you can tell a lot of work went into this its clearly a labour of love, and there's a lot of info here. To me for what its worth ( as much as any GM's opinion is worth to another) its the kind of thing to be looked at and mined for information that's then left to percolate. The kind of thing that lets a GM draw on later from memory to add a kind of robustness to vague areas in their world. Well done though this is as said already Herculean without a doubt :) .

Few things are ever for everyone's tastes, 'Horses for Courses'.

And now back to Bree :)

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Kurt
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Re: Economic System

Post by Kurt » Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:07 pm

Kirppu wrote:
Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:22 pm
Wow you can tell a lot of work went into this its clearly a labour of love, and there's a lot of info here. ... its the kind of thing to be looked at and mined for information that's then left to percolate. The kind of thing that lets a GM draw on later from memory to add a kind of robustness to vague areas in their world. ...
I'll second this. I won't be reading it in full, but will certainly pick out the parts that I need when detailing out a little village or town. It's a good reference document. As it will be a good reference document I'd like to add that it could do with a table of contents and an index. :)

Thanks for your efforts Bocephas!

Cheers,
Kurt

Turin
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Re: Economic System

Post by Turin » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:38 pm

This is perfect for me, my group has started to branch out in investing more in their holding(s) and I was about to pull out Harn manor to help me stay consistent across their activities. For what I am using it for the table layout is perfect, finding the data that is pertinent to the activity as quickly as possible and allows for easier adjustments as well.

Thanks.

Bocephas
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Re: Economic System

Post by Bocephas » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:05 am

Thanks for the kind replies. Here's an example of how this material can enhance your game.

Gerold the Woodman (your typical Frugal Wealth Woodman Hero) is the leader of a homestead of 30 Woodmen (2 Hunting/Gathering Hides with 30 tenants and 1 craftsman, plus Gerold's family/servants) several miles from Woodmen Town.

Gerold's holding might be described as follows: "Right to hunt and gather resources in 4000 acres of woods between stream A and stream B. Herds with 48 sheep, 32 goats, and 24 pigs. Homestead with 40 acres under plow".

Gerold's homestead produces enough income to support himself, his family (2 adults and 2 children), a riding horse (rouncy), and 3 servants. His servants include an elderly spinster, a young kitchen maid, and a boy to tend to his horse and hound of Mirkwood. Gerold's income also allows him to maintain a suit of leather armor (2D6 armor), regular shield, long-hafted axe, and bow. The value of Gerold's military kit is 28 silver pieces. He does not have the income or infrastructure to maintain better equipment (like mail armor).

After all his expenses are met, Gerold is able to save 2 silver pieces per year. If he were to lose his trusty long-hafted axe, it would take 2 years worth of savings to replace it.

When Gerold's children come of age, his tenants will provide his son with 2 gold pieces worth of military equipment and horses (Footman's kit and rouncy), and his daughter with 2 gold pieces for a dowry.

Gerold is the only full-time warrior in his homestead (resources are only sufficient to maintain Gerold and his family as the warrior-class representatives for the group). However, in time of need, Gerold can call upon 2 Woodmen with average military training (2 Fyrd with 1D6 armor) and 4 Woodmen with poor military training (4 Militia with no armor).

When called to battle, Gerold would ride to the muster on his horse, and appear in the ranks with his hound and 1 of his Fyrdmen.

Gerold's closet neighbor is Rathar, who leads a homestead of 45 Woodmen (3 Hunting/Gathering Hides). Between them, their homesteads provide 1 full-time Footman (1 per 5 Hides, supported at tenant expense) to garrison a fort on the main road running through the area. This warrior is usually chosen by Rathar, as he is senior to Gerold.
Last edited by Bocephas on Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Bocephas
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Re: Economic System

Post by Bocephas » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:00 pm

Here's another example:

Let us assume Woodmen Town has a population of 500 people. For a hunting/gathering society, supporting that population would require an entire hex of land around Woodmen Town (85 square miles or 55,000 acres). This means other communities of Woodmen (small freeholds of 30-45 people) would need to be placed outside that 1-hex area to have access to their own resources.

As for the population of Woodmen Town, these 500 people would be comprised of about 25 "hides" of 15 people each (25 extended families = 375 food producers: hunters, gatherers, sheep/goat herders), plus about 125 other people (leaders/warriors, servants, and craftsmen).

Since the Woodmen are a Frugal culture, most of the 25 hides would be divided between low-level leaders (Ceorls if you will) who function as kin-group heads for 15-45 Woodmen (holders 1-3 hides). The senior leader of Woodmen Town would qualify as a Lesser Thegn (holder of 5 hides).

Thus, the military forces of Woodmen Town might look something like this:
5-Hide Holder (5 Hides): Lesser Thegn, Mounted Footman, Thegn's Guard
3-Hide Holders x 2 (6 Hides): 2 Mounted Footmen (Well-off Ceorls), 2 Footmen
2-Hide Holders x 3 (6 Hides): 3 Mounted Footmen (Average Ceorls)
1-Hide Holders x 8 (8 Hides): 8 Footmen (Poor Ceorls)
Full-time Garrison (1 per 5 Hides): 5 Garrison-Footmen
Part-time Fyrd (1 per Hide): 25 Fyrd (well trained)
Emergency Militia (2 per Hide): 50 Militia (poorly trained - although perhaps better trained than agrarian culture militias in settled lands)

Given these numbers, Woodmen Town supports 28 full-time warriors (1 Lesser Thegn, 6 Mounted Footmen, 15 Footmen, 1 Thegn's Guard, and 5 Garrison-Footmen). Suppose Woodmen Town also uses some of its 125 silver pieces in tax income (5 silver per hide) to hire 2 full-time Town Guards (costing 12 silver each), for a total of 30 full-time warriors. This represents 6% of the total population of Woodmen Town (a pretty high percentage to be devoted fully to military pursuits).

If called away to battle, Woodmen Town could field 1 Lesser Thegn, 6 Mounted Footmen, 15 Footmen, and 12 Fyrd. This would still leave 5 Garrison-Footmen, 2 Town Guards, 1 Thegn's Guard, 13 Fyrd, and 50 Militia to protect Woodmen Town.

As for the 125 non-food producing population of Woodmen Town, we have already accounted for 30 of them (full-time warriors). To this we add the following:
- Lesser Thegn (5-hide holder) family (4 people) and servants (5 people).
- Well-off Ceorls (3-hide holders) families (4 people x 2 = 8) and servants (3 people x 2 = 6).
- Average Ceorls (2-hide holders) families (4 people x 3 = 12) and servants (3 people x 3 x 9).
- Poor Ceorls (1-hide holders) servants (2 people x 8 = 16) (Note: Poor Ceorl families are included in food producing population).

This gives a total of 60 family/servants within the leadership of Woodmen Town (warrior class). Adding the 30 warriors to this gives a total of 90 people.

This leaves 35 people unaccounted for, and we still haven't counted the craftsmen.
- Lesser Thegn's holding supports 4 craftsmen
- Well-off Ceorls holdings support 2 craftsmen each (4 total)
- Average Ceorls holdings support 1 craftsman each (3 total)
- Poor Ceorls holdings support (let us assume) 1 craftsman per 2 hides (4 total)

This gives a total of 15 craftsman, leaving only 20 people unaccounted for.

If we assume the craftsmen support 1-2 family members each, its easy to see how we reach our 500+ people for Woodmen Town.

Alternatively, if you feel the Woodmen would have more well-trained part-time warriors (Fyrd), there is plenty of tax income left to move 25 of the Militia up to Fyrd status (adds 1 silver piece in cost per man to maintain equipment). This would give you 50 Fyrd (food producers who are also well-trained part-time warriors) and 25 Militia (food producers who are poorly trained emergency warriors).

Of Woodmen Town's 125 silver in tax income, they would be spending 24 silver on the 2 Town Guards, 10 silver to maintain equipment for the 5 Garrison-Footmen, and 25 silver upgrading the equipment of 25 Militia to Fyrd status (maintenance cost of the higher quality gear). This would still leave them 66 silver (about half their taxes) for infrastructure.

With this alternative, the battle muster of Woodmen Town would be: 1 Lesser Thegn, 6 Mounted Footmen, 15 Footmen, and 25 Fyrd. This would leave 5 Garrison-Footmen, 2 Town Guards, 1 Thegn's Guard, 25 Fyrd, and 25 Militia to protect the town.
Last edited by Bocephas on Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Bocephas
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Re: Economic System

Post by Bocephas » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:19 pm

Another option is to see Woodmen Town as being controlled by more powerful leaders (Martial vs Frugal Wealth Level). In this model, our 25 hides in Woodmen Town might be divided between 1 Thegn (10 hides) and 3 Lesser Thegns (5 hides each).

The Ceorls (1-3 hide holders, Frugal Wealth) would lead the small enclaves of Woodmen in the surrounding area (outside the 1-hex area of land needed to support Woodmen Town). This is the group from which our player heroes would be chosen.

In this model, the number and type of full-time warriors change:
10-Hide Holder (10 Hides): Thegn, 2 Mounted Footmen, Footman, 2 Thegn's Guards
5-Hide Holders x 3 (15 Hides): 3 Lesser Thegns, 3 Mounted Footmen, 3 Thegn's Guards

This model gives us 20 full-time warriors (1 Thegn, 3 Lesser Thegns, 5 Mounted Footmen, 1 Footman, 5 Thegn's Guards, and 5 Garrison-Footmen) instead of 28 full-time warriors in the other model. However, a few of the warriors in this model would have better equipment and horses than in the first model. If Woodmen Town hired the 2 Town Guards, as above, they would have 22 full-time warriors (about 4.5% of the population as opposed to 6% as in the first model).

Fyrd, Militia, and tax income remain the same for both models.

As for the 125 non-food producing population, we have:
- Thegn's family (4 people) and servants (10 people)
- 3 Lesser Thegn families (4 people x 3 = 15) and servants (5 people x 3 = 20).

This gives a total of 49 family/servants within the leadership (warrior class). Adding the 22 warriors to this gives a total of 71 people.

This leaves 54 people unaccounted for.

As for the craftsmen:
- Thegn's holding supports 4 craftsmen and 8 assistants (12 total)
- Lesser Thegn's holdings support 4 craftsmen each (12 total)

This gives a total of 24 craftsmen/assistants, leaving only 30 people unaccounted for.

If we assume each craftsman/assistant supports an average of 1 family member, we are left with only 6 people unaccounted for to reach our 500+ people for Woodmen Town. These could easily be explained by a few extra children among the thegn families and perhaps a merchant family that has taken up residence in the town (due to the higher standard of living among the town leadership).

Looking to other cultures, a Beorning town (Martial Wealth Level) might follow this model as well.

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Terisonen
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Re: Economic System

Post by Terisonen » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:53 am

A table of content would be really useful.

As for the use of horse for combat or riding to combat, Dwarf do not ride, as I think Woodmen, since they live mostly in difficult ground where horse is more an hindrance than an help. Same thing for the Wood Elves. So removing the use of horse for their culture would be wise.
Nothing of Worth.

Bocephas
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Re: Economic System

Post by Bocephas » Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:16 pm

In my view, all cultures need pack animals, and most people with some wealth (from any culture) are going to ride when traveling. I agree that many cultures would not fight from horseback.

I'm not sure about Dwarves. Again, I think this is a hard culture to model. But in my system, a Dwarven Master's riding ponies only account for 9 silver out of 224 silver in military spending. So, this can easily be discounted/ignored, if you feel Dwarves should not have riding ponies.

Otaku-sempai
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Re: Economic System

Post by Otaku-sempai » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:01 pm

Bocephas wrote:
Sun Jul 09, 2017 12:16 pm
In my view, all cultures need pack animals, and most people with some wealth (from any culture) are going to ride when traveling. I agree that many cultures would not fight from horseback.
Not to mention dray animals for carts, wagons, plows, etc. And there are other work animals besides horses and ponies: Mules, donkeys, oxen, kine, even goats and dogs (and including the more exotic: the oliphaunts of Harad and the beasts that pulled the battering ram Grond).
I'm not sure about Dwarves. Again, I think this is a hard culture to model. But in my system, a Dwarven Master's riding ponies only account for 9 silver out of 224 silver in military spending. So, this can easily be discounted/ignored, if you feel Dwarves should not have riding ponies.
I agree with Terisonen that Dwarves tend to not use mounted cavalry.They would prefer to fight on their feet and, if possible, underground. However, they could ride ponies for transport and would need both pack beasts and dray animals in any case. Sturdy dwarf-bred ponies were doubtless used to pull mining carts.
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