Another "New Journey Rules", inspired by AiMe

The unique One Ring rules set invites tinkering and secondary creation. Whilst The One Ring works brilliantly as written, we provide this forum for those who want to make their own home-brewed versions of the rules. Note that none of these should be taken as 'official'.
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Falenthal
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Re: Another "New Journey Rules", inspired by AiMe

Post by Falenthal » Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:26 am

Rich H wrote:
Falenthal wrote:Moreover, forcing the march gives the same "upgrade" in category with this ranges:
A short journey of 7 to 12 days turns into a medium journey.
A medium journey of just 13 days turns into a long journey.
Why does a forced march make a journey longer?
It's the way I'm handling Force March for now:
It doubles the number of hexes for the purpouse of determining the lenght of the Journey and, therefore, the number of Fatigue tests and Hazards encountered (the extra Hazards can be explained as bad preparations due to the haste, running into dangerous things because there's no time for exploring in advance, etc.).

In other words, you still do a "short journey" in real distance, but it's considered a "medium journey" for difficulties.

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Rich H
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Re: Another "New Journey Rules", inspired by AiMe

Post by Rich H » Sat Oct 01, 2016 11:33 am

Falenthal wrote:In other words, you still do a "short journey" in real distance, but it's considered a "medium journey" for difficulties.
Gotcha.

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Re: Another "New Journey Rules", inspired by AiMe

Post by Otaku-sempai » Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:07 pm

Falenthal wrote:It's the way I'm handling Force March for now:
It doubles the number of hexes for the purpouse of determining the lenght of the Journey and, therefore, the number of Fatigue tests and Hazards encountered (the extra Hazards can be explained as bad preparations due to the haste, running into dangerous things because there's no time for exploring in advance, etc.).

In other words, you still do a "short journey" in real distance, but it's considered a "medium journey" for difficulties.
That just does not track. The whole point of a forced march is to arrive at your destination sooner. This is what Dain and his fighters did to arrive at Erebor a half-day or more before they were expected.

Oh, and Happy Durin's Day!
DR. MANHATTAN: I'm leaving this galaxy for one less complicated.
OZYMANDIAS: But you'd regained interest in human life...
DR. MANHATTAN: Yes, I have. I think perhaps I'll create some. Goodbye, Adrian.

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Rich H
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Re: Another "New Journey Rules", inspired by AiMe

Post by Rich H » Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:34 pm

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Falenthal wrote:It's the way I'm handling Force March for now:
It doubles the number of hexes for the purpouse of determining the lenght of the Journey and, therefore, the number of Fatigue tests and Hazards encountered (the extra Hazards can be explained as bad preparations due to the haste, running into dangerous things because there's no time for exploring in advance, etc.).

In other words, you still do a "short journey" in real distance, but it's considered a "medium journey" for difficulties.
That just does not track. The whole point of a forced march is to arrive at your destination sooner. This is what Dain and his fighters did to arrive at Erebor a half-day or more before they were expected.
Take another look at what was said; the way I read it is that real distance doesn't increase (stays as a short journey) just the difficulties (move to being the same as a medium journey), which feels like what a forced march would be like. You'd get their quicker but would be pushing yourself harder so it would be a tougher journey.

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Re: Another "New Journey Rules", inspired by AiMe

Post by Otaku-sempai » Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:53 pm

Thanks. I didn't see where that was translated into the time for the journey. Celebrate your Durin's Day as would Gimli, son of Gloin, with ripe meat on the spit and good malt beer.
DR. MANHATTAN: I'm leaving this galaxy for one less complicated.
OZYMANDIAS: But you'd regained interest in human life...
DR. MANHATTAN: Yes, I have. I think perhaps I'll create some. Goodbye, Adrian.

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Falenthal
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Re: Another "New Journey Rules", inspired by AiMe

Post by Falenthal » Sat Oct 01, 2016 2:08 pm

Thanks for the clarification, Rich, and to both for taking the time to read and comment.

I'll toast my second beer of this Durin's Day Saturday to your long health and beards! ;)

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Re: Another "New Journey Rules", inspired by AiMe

Post by Yepesnopes » Sat Oct 01, 2016 9:48 pm

I am not sure I like it for the only reason that if a fellowship would have to cross the misty mountains as part of a longer trip, e.g. From Beorn's house to Rivendel. How will your rules account for that very dangerous but short (in hexes) part of the trip? Or am I missing something?

Thanks

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Re: Another "New Journey Rules", inspired by AiMe

Post by Falenthal » Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:26 am

Yepesnopes wrote:I am not sure I like it for the only reason that if a fellowship would have to cross the misty mountains as part of a longer trip, e.g. From Beorn's house to Rivendel. How will your rules account for that very dangerous but short (in hexes) part of the trip? Or am I missing something?

Thanks
Foreword: Just to clarify, the difficulty of the Fatigue and Hazards tests are set by the Region Type (i.e. the runes) crossed (p.158 table), not by the Terrain Difficulty (i.e. the colours) (p.156 table). The Terrain Difficulty is only used if the exact duration of the Journey is needed.
In your example, the High Pass (6 hexes) is Wild Lands (TN16), the West Middle Vales (6 hexes) are Border Lands (TN14) and both the East Middle Vales and the Rivendell region (8 hexes) are Free Lands (TN12).

That's also a concern I have: If a journey takes a group along 14 Dark Land hexes (TN20) and 15 Free Land ones (TN12), the whole Journey will have a difficulty of Easy.

The idea of counting the only the main terrains difficulty comes from AiMe, though (p.165). But I admit I don't master those rules so much as to know the exact influence of the Peril Rating, and how it can be compared to TOR's TN for the Fatigue tests:
Determining the Peril Rating of a Journey
The Loremaster should consult the Loremaster’s Map
to determine the difficulty of the terrain through which
the journey passes. Whichever type of terrain forms the
majority of hexes passed through by the proposed route
determines the overall terrain type.
In those extreme cases, what I'd recommend (until some interesting idea comes out) is that the LM uses common sense and decides to divide the whole Journey into legs, i.e. in two (or more) Journeys.
Or, if the very dangerous part is a short, but significant one, don't modify the TN for the Fatigue tests, but set the Hazard(s) there and use that Region's (higher) difficulty for them.

An example of this would be the (improbable) Journey from Barad-dûr to Linhir: 12 hexes through Dark Lands in Mordor, 7 through Border Lands in Ithilien, 25 through Free Lands between Lossarnach and Lebennin. If taken as a whole, with my rules that would simply make a Long Journey with TN12 for the Fatigue tests.
As a LM, I think we all would do first a Medium Journey through Mordor (or even Short if using the road) with a TN20.
After that, I'd do a second different Journey from Minas Morgul to Linhir, a Long one but with TN12.

Any other ideas that could help improve this, without having to resort to tiresome calculations?
If we were to begin doing maths to compare how a Dark Land's hex relates to a Wild Land's hex, then we could already return to the RAW Journey's system, and I'd like to avoid that part.

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Re: Another "New Journey Rules", inspired by AiMe

Post by Falenthal » Tue Oct 11, 2016 11:26 am

I've edited the OP, updating a few new ideas that came from input from this thread (Forced March, dividing into legs or using different TNs for Hazards and Fatigue tests).

Also, and mainly, after some test in simulated Journeys, comparing the RAW with these rules, I saw that the increase in Fatigue was too low for my house-rules.

In fact, by the RAW, the ranges of Fatigue that can be gained in a Journey are VERY broad. To my liking, even absurdly broad.
For example, let's take the long journey from Erebor to Beorn's House from the Core book (p.163/164).
Following the calculations found there, a group would make from 6 to 11 Fatigue tests (depending on the season), and gain from 0 to 18 Fatigue points (Summer) or from 0 to 44 (Winter).

On the one hand, I found it hard to believe that even the hardiest of travellers can cross the Grey Mountain Narrows during winter and be able to gain 0 Fatigue points.
In the other extrem, a noob traveller will find no difference between gaining 10-12 Fatigue points (the usual difference between Fatigue and Maximum Endurance) or 44. Being able to gain 44 Fatigue points has no real impact in the game: once your Fatigue meets your maximum Endurance, all added Fatigue makes no difference at all.

Using my proposed rules, the same journey will consist of 3 Fatigue tests (whatever the season), and heroes will gain from 3 to 12 Fatigue points (Spring-Summer) or from 9 to 18 (Autumn-Winter).

Not only the total numbers should be considered (0 to 18 using the RAW vs. 3 to 12 using the house-rule), but also the spread of those results.
In the RAW, the tendency for each hero tends to the extremes, in the house-rule the Fatigue gained is more granulary spread, with of course a tendency for higher or lower results depending on the number of dice rolled (skill ranks + bonus die).

I'm not a very good mathematician, but I see for now the outcome of this house-rule as more interesting than that of the RAW, and using a lot less of dice rolls at the table.

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Re: Another "New Journey Rules", inspired by AiMe

Post by Ghorin » Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:36 pm

Hello Falenthal,

Here is my feedbak on your new house-rule

1) I think there is an issue or missing information or misunderstanding by me in below example
You say :
Each Fatigue test increases the Travel Fatigue points by 4 during Spring-Summer, and 6 during Autumn-Winter.
Each level of success on the Fatigue test reduces the Travel Fatigue points gained by 1.
Example: A Great Success (Success and one 6) during a Medium Journey in Winter will make the hero gain 2 Travel Fatigue points.
If I try your example, I don't get the same result :
- medium = 2 Fatigue tests done separately
1st test :
- Winter = 6 Travel Fatigue points
- Great success = reduction of gained Travel Fatigue points by 2
==> the character gains 4 Travel Fatigue points (not 2)
... unless you considered that the player had a great success on his 2 Fatigue test


2) What I like
- Impact of levels of success
- Use of traits reducing the Fatigue gained only by 1
- easy to use (more simple than Rich H house rule) and not very different than TOR raw

3) What I dislike (for my own way of play, not a general jugement)
- 3 Fatigue tests : I prefer having only 1 like in Rich H version. It's better than raw but still too much for me.
- In hazard resolution, i don't like the 2nd point "When a hazard is described, all of the affected heroes can decide to avoid rolling and automatically the whole fellowship gain 1 Fatigue point". I don't find it very "narration-ready". Maybe you could give an example ?

Note : as I said to Rich H, i'm french and my english isn't perfect and I might misunderstand your rule at some points, thus don't hesitate to correct me

Ghorin

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