Peoples of Rhovanion and the Sea of Rhûnen

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Tolwen
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Re: Peoples of Rhovanion and the Sea of Rhûnen

Post by Tolwen » Sat Jul 23, 2016 10:18 pm

Finrod Felagund wrote: Rouavalda

I wondered a little about the name Rouavalda (and its fit with the name Dorwinion), but it can work I guess.
To be honest, I made that name (and most others) up. There was a need to create a great number of original names. thus I used names that were drawn from a single "seed" of names that served as a basis.
Finrod Felagund wrote:[...] but how do the Rouavalda live? Do they have a central Town or Towns where the leader can control (tax) traders?
In OM15 you can find the second part of the rhovanic demographics, i.e the towns and settlements that were based on the overall numbers from OM14. In the primary TOR timeframe (TA 2946+) there are three principal towns in Rouavald that serve as the biggest centers. All of them are located along the lower Celduin, where the population density is supposed to be highest. You can find this on p. 104 of the revised Issue:
1. Leucir (Wen4) - ca. 3,100 inhabitants.
2. Hunthlaburg (Alm2) - ca. 3,100 inhabitants
3. Thausedir (Alm1) - ca. 4,400 inhabitants
Thausedir is supposed to be the realm's primary settlement, though especially on the lower Celduin there are other (see above) sizebale towns available for trade. There are even more upriver, but all of them are smaller. See the Issue for more details.

Concerning the Mardumhesta (Wainriders) and Bozorgana (Balchoth), Halbarad has already mentioned a lot. My general idea was that the Bozorgana did not give up on their expansionistic ambitions after Parth Celebrant, and Rohan (most likely with Gondor's help) had to fend off several more invasions (admittedly smaller ones). Eorl was slain in one of these. These continued attempts are reported by Tolkien and it is highly likely that the Balchoth were responsible.
After this they gave up trying to conquer the West and turned their attention northward (which was still not under their rule by now) and conquered Rhovanion up to the Celduin (at times even more, but generally the Celduin was the border). Soon after though, the central authority waned and the - quite large - Easterling empire fragmented into smaller successor princedoms that were often occupied fighting each other, making it so much easier for their neighbours to keep their independence. This disunity was probably the most important factor in the survival of independent Northmen realms (especially Dale) in these years.
This continued for about 450 years, when one realm began to re-unify the old empire step by step. Naturally, these Easterlings were heavily supported by and under the rule of Sauron. At the War of the Ring, official re-unification was not yet achieved (that was planned for the great victory celebration), but in fact they were again acting in unison. These Easterlings (Balchoth succcessors) were the main source of Easterling armies that threatened both Dale and were seen by Frodo & Sam (and fought at the Morannon).

So overall, I envisaged the Balchoth and their descendants as staying in Rhovanion from TA 2500 onwards, ruling it in various princedoms and being the single most dominant ethnicity here. But despite this, it is also true that the population density is quite low and the people are concentrated (relatively) in few areas wirh wide lands in between that are only very thinly settled.

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Tolwen
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Re: Peoples of Rhovanion and the Sea of Rhûnen

Post by Finrod Felagund » Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:09 am

Thanks Tolwen - very interesting.

I have read OM before (and very much enjoyed it) but had forgotten about that article. I'll give it another read.

FF

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Re: Peoples of Rhovanion and the Sea of Rhûnen

Post by Tolwen » Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:04 am

Finrod Felagund wrote:They [people of Rouavald] probably did join Sauron, but is their a chance they did so reluctantly (or some resisted)? Were they occupied and if so did trade end before the War of the Ring. If the Rouavalda were reluctantly occupied is their a chance that Adventurers could be based there to try and prevent this?
The story as designed in OM 14 & 15 is that the Rouadengi (the people from Rouavald; themselves being a mixed people with a complex history) always tried to maintain some kind of neutrality in the long-smoldering conflict between Northmen/Dwarves and Easterlings. When the War of the Ring approached however, they became aware that the mounting power of the Bozorgana was a problem and eventually they were forced to join the Easterling alliance. This was not done out of genuine friendship or sympathy but purely for pragmatic reasons, as they recognised that resistance was not an option ("We are the Bozorgana - resistance is futile" :twisted: ) and they had a better chance of survival (and fighting another day) if they joined the Bozorgana alliance and bite the bullet. Still, their contribution remained half-hearted. They always walked the thin line of committing themselves only with the acceptable minimum not to be seen as uncooperative while still joining the attack on Dale. Even then, the motivation of their troops remained the lowest in the host and they were not entirely trusted as fully reliable by the Easterlings (rightly so).

So in a word, IMO they joined out of necessity and pressure, not by choice or preference.

@Halbarad: Thanks for the praise :) For me, it was also a pleasure to work with you. The origin of the Hunkarim need not to be exclusive IMO. They could be a new people formed both by former Wainriders and other people from the East. It would be another good instance of the great melting pot Rhovanion ;)

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Tolwen
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Re: Peoples of Rhovanion and the Sea of Rhûnen

Post by farinal » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:29 am

Something on the names. Most of these are taken from Turkish or old Turkic language. But here they are written in a wrong Latin. For example Saglayan in the original post is actually Sağlayan. But since the ğ doesn't exist in English and the g doesn't provide the same sound just because it is the most similar letter, you will need to change the words to provide a correct pronounciation I think.

Hünkarım
Sağlayan
Emektar (this one is pretty okay with the Emekhtar form I think)
Tarkan (same as the one above)
Tığkız (this one needs a better English form as when you read it as Tigkiz it really sounds something very different/ugly)
Of Finarfin's children I am the last. But my heart is still proud. What wrong did the golden house of Finarfin do that I should ask the pardon of the Valar, or be content with an isle in the sea whose native land was Aman the Blessed? Here I am mightier.

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Terisonen
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Re: Peoples of Rhovanion and the Sea of Rhûnen

Post by Terisonen » Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:14 pm

Transliteration is always tricky...
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Re: Peoples of Rhovanion and the Sea of Rhûnen

Post by shipwreck » Fri May 05, 2017 1:49 pm

At 'Treacherous Waters' in our DOM campaign, and it seemed kind of boring so I'm taking the thread about the poor harvest in Dorwinion and sending my PCs there with Halbrech. I will definitely be using some of this, so thanks!

Does anyone have any images they like that go with Dorwinion?
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Re: Peoples of Rhovanion and the Sea of Rhûnen

Post by Otaku-sempai » Fri May 05, 2017 2:58 pm

I forgot to ask earlier: Why use an alternate name for the Inland Sea (the Sea of Rhûnen), as opposed to simply the Sea of Rhûn? Where is this variant coming from? Though I could imagine the Sindar using the name Gaer Rhûnen.

There was a Talath Rhûnen ("East Vale") in Beleriand, but that was an early Sindar name for the region of Thargelion.
shipwreck wrote:
Fri May 05, 2017 1:49 pm
Does anyone have any images they like that go with Dorwinion?
Tolkien never made it clear whether Dorwinion was a Mannish region or an Elvish-controlled place. However, I visualize it as similar to a medieval Italian trading port, surrounded by vineyards and olive groves.
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OZYMANDIAS: But you'd regained interest in human life...
DR. MANHATTAN: Yes, I have. I think perhaps I'll create some. Goodbye, Adrian.

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Terisonen
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Re: Peoples of Rhovanion and the Sea of Rhûnen

Post by Terisonen » Fri May 05, 2017 3:51 pm

Wine, Inland sea, Mountain, the East: just the description of the South Georgia in the Caucasus.

Image

And for venture:

Image
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Re: Peoples of Rhovanion and the Sea of Rhûnen

Post by Terisonen » Fri May 05, 2017 3:52 pm

Nothing of Worth.

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Re: Peoples of Rhovanion and the Sea of Rhûnen

Post by shipwreck » Fri May 05, 2017 4:45 pm

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Fri May 05, 2017 2:58 pm
Tolkien never made it clear whether Dorwinion was a Mannish region or an Elvish-controlled place. However, I visualize it as similar to a medieval Italian trading port, surrounded by vineyards and olive groves.
Exactly my thoughts. My plan at this point is to possibly introduce a few Elf characters from east who sometimes work with the Dorwinion vintners as a cross between seasonal labor and "consultants".

Thanks, Terisonen!
Elfcrusher wrote:But maybe the most important difference is that in D&D the goal is to build wtfpwn demi-god characters. In TOR the goal is to stay alive long enough to tell a good story.

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