Staves

The unique One Ring rules set invites tinkering and secondary creation. Whilst The One Ring works brilliantly as written, we provide this forum for those who want to make their own home-brewed versions of the rules. Note that none of these should be taken as 'official'.
Otaku-sempai
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Re: Staves

Post by Otaku-sempai » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:46 pm

Terisonen wrote:I would give a Quaterstaff an Encombrance of 2: you can walk with it in hand, and it even help you when walking in difficult passage. Same with Spear, either... Without the spike end (less chance to put an eye of comrade out).
Maybe. I can't see reducing the Encumbrance of the Short stave to 1, though, so both that and the Quarterstaff would be listed at 2. Do you think that would work?

The thing is, I've seen several descriptions for the Quarterstaff, some of them giving a maximum length of eight or even nine feet. If even a Longsword has an Encumbrance of 3, I'm not sure I can give the Quarterstaff any less.
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zedturtle
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Re: Staves

Post by zedturtle » Mon Feb 29, 2016 11:44 pm

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Terisonen wrote:I would give a Quaterstaff an Encombrance of 2: you can walk with it in hand, and it even help you when walking in difficult passage. Same with Spear, either... Without the spike end (less chance to put an eye of comrade out).
Maybe. I can't see reducing the Encumbrance of the Short stave to 1, though, so both that and the Quarterstaff would be listed at 2. Do you think that would work?

The thing is, I've seen several descriptions for the Quarterstaff, some of them giving a maximum length of eight or even nine feet. If even a Longsword has an Encumbrance of 3, I'm not sure I can give the Quarterstaff any less.
Well, it's more about game balance than realism, plus as Terisonen says, a staff can actually help with Encumbrance by providing better footing and something to lean on when you're able to take a moment's rest.

A short sword is Enc 1, why not a short staff?
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Otaku-sempai
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Re: Staves

Post by Otaku-sempai » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:46 am

zedturtle wrote:Well, it's more about game balance than realism, plus as Terisonen says, a staff can actually help with Encumbrance by providing better footing and something to lean on when you're able to take a moment's rest.
Maybe, if we can standardize the length of the Quarterstaff so that it is consistently close to six feet long.
A short sword is Enc 1, why not a short staff?
A Short stave, as I've written it up at least, would still be significantly longer than a Short sword (although possibly not heavier). An Encumbrance of 1 for a Short stave just seems too generous to me, but maybe I'm being too picky. I wouldn't mind feedback from any of our game designers. The Encumbrance of the Spear had not escaped my notice either and has given me something to think about. I can make the edit and we can see how it's received. My other concern is that there is no other close-combat weapon that is routinely wielded with two hands that has an Encumbrance less than 2.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

Glorelendil
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Re: Staves

Post by Glorelendil » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:15 am

Otaku-sempai wrote:
zedturtle wrote:Well, it's more about game balance than realism, plus as Terisonen says, a staff can actually help with Encumbrance by providing better footing and something to lean on when you're able to take a moment's rest.
Maybe, if we can standardize the length of the Quarterstaff so that it is consistently close to six feet long.
Why is it necessary to give it a length? Do any other weapons (spears, for example) have specified length?
A short sword is Enc 1, why not a short staff?
My other concern is that there is no other close-combat weapon that is routinely wielded with two hands that has an Encumbrance less than 2.
But what's the game balance issue?
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zedturtle
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Re: Staves

Post by zedturtle » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:24 am

Otaku-sempai wrote:A Short stave, as I've written it up at least, would still be significantly longer than a Short sword (although possibly not heavier). An Encumbrance of 1 for a Short stave just seems too generous to me, but maybe I'm being too picky. I wouldn't mind feedback from any of our game designers. The Encumbrance of the Spear had not escaped my notice either and has given me something to think about. I can make the edit and we can see how it's received. My other concern is that there is no other close-combat weapon that is routinely wielded with two hands that has an Encumbrance less than 2.
If you're talking about a short-staff (and I admit I'm a tiny bit confused), then there's no other weapon that requires two hands to do 5 damage, right? Giving up a shield is a big deal...

P.S. I'm with GE... I don't think that any weapon should have a specified size, it's about the right length for the hero who wields it.
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Glorelendil
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Re: Staves

Post by Glorelendil » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:31 am

zedturtle wrote:I don't think that any weapon should have a specified size, it's about the right length for the hero who wields it.
That's what I wish I had said.
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Otaku-sempai
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Re: Staves

Post by Otaku-sempai » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:15 am

Glorelendil wrote:Why is it necessary to give it a length? Do any other weapons (spears, for example) have specified length?
Well, from The Adventurer's Book:
Spear
Approximately six feet in length, a spear can be hurled as a javelin or deftly thrust with one hand.
But what's the game balance issue?
I'm not sure that there is a game balance issue; it just seems off. That might be just me or it might not really matter. Looking at the Weapons table for Heroes, though, it seems that very small weapons should have effectively no Encumbrance; small weapons should have an Encumbrance of 1; medium weapons should have an Encumbrance rating of 2; large weapons should have an Encumbrance of 3 or 4. I have thought of an important caveat: An unskilled wielder would have to make a Brawling attack as though using an improvised weapon.
Last edited by Otaku-sempai on Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

Otaku-sempai
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Re: Staves

Post by Otaku-sempai » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:22 am

zedturtle wrote:If you're talking about a short-staff (and I admit I'm a tiny bit confused), then there's no other weapon that requires two hands to do 5 damage, right? Giving up a shield is a big deal...

P.S. I'm with GE... I don't think that any weapon should have a specified size, it's about the right length for the hero who wields it.
I've called it a Short stave just to set it apart, just as I've called a normal-sized club a Cudgel to distinguish it from the Trolls' Club.

Just as the Spear has a given approximate size of six feet, we could give a Quarterstaff an approximate size of six feet (or either six to seven or six to eight feet). Likewise, we could give the Short stave an approximate size of four feet or so. We don't necessarily have to, but we can. The question is whether we should; although I see no harm in such general outlines. Also, are you saying that the Damage and/or Injury rating is too low? Because I do understand that concern.

After new edits, the two staves look like this:

New Weapon: Quarterstaff (Stave)
The Quarterstaff is a stout, wooden stave about six to eight feet long which may be shod at one or both ends. It is a simple, but effective close-combat weapon for travelers and common folk. Due to their reduced size, Hobbits and Dwarves are unable to wield the Quarterstaff effectively. An unskilled wielder would have to make a Brawling attack as though using an improvised weapon.

Quarterstaff
Damage: 7
Edge: G-rune (Eye, if wielded by an Adversary)
Injury: 14
Encumbrance: 3
Group: -
Notes: Two-handed weapon. A successful called shot results in a Knockdown*.

* Loremasters: If you feel that Knockdown is unbalancing to your game, we suggest that you either: rule that the effect is not applicable to Adversaries with Great Size; or instead substitute the Called Shot of Disarm.


New Weapon: Short Stave
Short staves are the preferred weapons of the Hobbits called Bounders (the Shirriffs who patrol the borders of the Shire), allowing them to subdue or drive off troublemakers with less chance of killing them. The Short stave is a stout, wooden staff that is approximately four to five feet long and shod at both ends. An unskilled wielder would have to make a Brawling attack as though using an improvised weapon.

Short Stave
Damage: 5
Edge: G-rune (Eye, if wielded by an Adversary)
Injury: 12
Encumbrance: 2
Group: -
Notes: Two-handed weapon. A successful called shot results in Disarm.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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Falenthal
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Re: Staves

Post by Falenthal » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:04 pm

Just for variety, this is how my version of Quarterstaff looks like using Glorelendil's weapon creator kit.
Beware that I want to use the Quarterstaff as a variant/option of Dagger, so that I don't have a problem with it having a surplus of points like the Dagger does:

Quarterstaff
Damage: 5
Edge: G
Injury: 14
Encumbrance: 0
Group: Dagger skill
Called Shot: Disarm
Notes: Two-handed Melee. Usable by Hobbits. A succesful Wound is substituted by Knockdown, unless the enemy has Giant Size, in which case there's no effect (neither Wound nor Knockdown).

I can't do a proper numerical evaluation, but I guess/believe that adding a Called Shot (which a Dagger has not) might compensate the fact that this is weapon that cannot Wound an opponent (which a Dagger can).
Last edited by Falenthal on Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Glorelendil
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Re: Staves

Post by Glorelendil » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:21 pm

Falenthal wrote:Just for variety, this is how my version of Quarterstaff looks like using Glorelendil's weapon creator kit.
Beware that I want to use the Quarterstaff as a variant/option of Dagger, so that I don't have a problem with it having a surplus of points like the Dagger does:

Quarterstaff
Damage: 5
Edge: G
Injury: 14
Encumbrance: 0
Group: Dagger (a.k.a. Simple Weapons)
Called Shot: Disarm
Notes: Two-handed Melee. Usable by Hobbits. A succesful Wound is substituted by Knockdown.

I can't do a proper numerical evaluation, but I guess/believe that adding a Called Shot (which a Dagger has not) might compensate the fact that this is weapon that cannot Wound an opponent (which a Dagger can).
I actually like "Dagger Group" better than "Simple Weapon", as it avoids (or at least ameliorates) connotations with which some folks will take issue. I changed the language in my theory thread.

(I remain deeply opposed to Knockdown as as Called Shot...)
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