Staves

The unique One Ring rules set invites tinkering and secondary creation. Whilst The One Ring works brilliantly as written, we provide this forum for those who want to make their own home-brewed versions of the rules. Note that none of these should be taken as 'official'.
Otaku-sempai
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Re: Staves

Post by Otaku-sempai » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:49 am

Glorelendil wrote:Sure, but the believability isn't the problem; it's the potential for game-breaking abuse that's the problem.
There are opponents such as the Stone-Troll Rine (from Rivendell) who can cause Knockdown with the attack Smash. Turnabout is fair play. I don't see an opponent having to take a turn to recover from a called shot as a game-breaker. Also, the staves could just as easily (more likely?) be in the hands of an enemy and being used against the Heroes.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

Glorelendil
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Re: Staves

Post by Glorelendil » Sun Feb 28, 2016 3:55 am

Otaku-sempai wrote:
Glorelendil wrote:Sure, but the believability isn't the problem; it's the potential for game-breaking abuse that's the problem.
There are opponents such as the Stone-Troll Rine (from Rivendell) who can cause Knockdown with the attack Smash. Turnabout is fair play. I don't see an opponent having to take a turn to recover from a called shot as a game-breaker. Also, the staves could just as easily (more likely?) be in the hands of an enemy and being used against the Heroes.
Because TOR is a game where sometimes a group of heroes try to kill a single powerful Adversary, but rarely the other way around.

Imagine if you were running a solo adventure for a high-level character and you put him up against a group of Attribute Level 1 Goblins, one of whom had a knockdown usable every round, and did. How "fair" would that feel?
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Otaku-sempai
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Re: Staves

Post by Otaku-sempai » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:01 am

Success isn't assured. That Goblin still has to make his called shot. And the Loremaster didn't HAVE to give any of them Staves; their usual weapons don't have that ability. And, honestly, sometimes s**t happens.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

Glorelendil
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Re: Staves

Post by Glorelendil » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:30 am

Otaku-sempai wrote:Success isn't assured. That Goblin still has to make his called shot. And the Loremaster didn't HAVE to give any of them Staves; their usual weapons don't have that ability. And, honestly, sometimes s**t happens.
I wasn't suggesting the goblin would be making a called shot with a staff: I was suggesting as a thought experiment that it have "some ability" to knock down the hero with a high probability of success every time. The point wasn't to say "won't it suck when the monsters use it on the heroes" but to say "look how ridiculously unfair it is when a group of weaklings easily prevents one powerful foe from ever getting an attack."

With skill of 4 a hero would have about a 50% chance of knocking down a dragon. 60% with skill of 5.

Really not terribly unlikely to lock down the Dragon until it's Weary, at a minimum.

I call that game-breaking.
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Re: Staves

Post by Glorelendil » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:42 am

Oh, wait...even better: multiple Hobbits with staves.

Two hobbits with skill 4 have a 75% of a knockdown. Three of them have an 87.5% chance.

So the new ultimate party is a bunch of hobbits with staves and a Beorning with a Great Spear and Honey Cakes.
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Re: Staves

Post by Otaku-sempai » Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:21 am

With skill of 4 a hero would have about a 50% chance of knocking down a dragon. 60% with skill of 5.

Really not terribly unlikely to lock down the Dragon until it's Weary, at a minimum.
House-rule that Knockdown is not applicable to opponents who have Great Size. It does indicate that we might need a new Special Ability for Adversaries that grants immunity to Knockdown. But if any of this is too problematic then just leave the Called Shot as Disarm.

As for this:
I wasn't suggesting the goblin would be making a called shot with a staff: I was suggesting as a thought experiment that it have "some ability" to knock down the hero with a high probability of success every time. The point wasn't to say "won't it suck when the monsters use it on the heroes" but to say "look how ridiculously unfair it is when a group of weaklings easily prevents one powerful foe from ever getting an attack."
Isn't that the reason why people form hunting parties, gangs, raiding parties, etc. in the first place? With enough numbers, even weak opponents are dangerous. The Heroes might want to choose to flee.
Oh, wait...even better: multiple Hobbits with staves.

Two hobbits with skill 4 have a 75% of a knockdown. Three of them have an 87.5% chance.
I did not give Knockdown to the Short stave, which is what Hobbit Bounders would have. But thanks for reminding me to exclude Hobbits from being able to wield the Quarterstaff.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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Re: Staves

Post by Otaku-sempai » Sun Feb 28, 2016 4:50 pm

I've revised my Quarterstaff a bit, taking into account much of the feedback I've received. I edited the original post, but here is how it stands at the moment:

New Weapon: Quarterstaff (Stave)
The Quarterstaff is a straight, wooden stave about six to eight feet long which may be shod at one or both ends. It is a simple, but effective close-combat weapon for travelers and common folk. Due to their reduced size, Hobbits are unable to wield the Quarterstaff effectively. Dwarves may use the Quarterstaff only if its length does not exceed six feet.

Quarterstaff
Damage: 7
Edge: G-rune (Eye, if wielded by an Adversary)
Injury: 14
Encumbrance: 3
Group: -
Notes: Two-handed weapon. A successful called shot results in a Knockdown*.

* Loremasters: If you feel that Knockdown is unbalancing to your game, we suggest that you either: rule that the effect is not applicable to Adversaries with Great Size; or instead substitute the Called Shot of Disarm.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

Glorelendil
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Re: Staves

Post by Glorelendil » Sun Feb 28, 2016 7:12 pm

I should mention that although this sub-forum is called "House Rules" I think of it as the place where fans can introduce ideas that could some day make it into official rules. My feedback/contributions are favoured accordingly.

Sorry if I come across as overly argumentative.
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Re: Staves

Post by Otaku-sempai » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:19 pm

Glorelendil wrote:I should mention that although this sub-forum is called "House Rules" I think of it as the place where fans can introduce ideas that could some day make it into official rules. My feedback/contributions are favoured accordingly.

Sorry if I come across as overly argumentative.
That's fine. If you want to argue for a new weapon quality, be my guest; and feel free to add your own version(s) of a staff-weapon. That is one of the reasons for this thread. The same holds true with the discussion for slings, etc.
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

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Terisonen
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Re: Staves

Post by Terisonen » Mon Feb 29, 2016 12:50 pm

I would give a Quaterstaff an Encombrance of 2: you can walk with it in hand, and it even help you when walking in difficult passage. Same with Spear, either... Without the spike end (less chance to put an eye of comrade out).
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