WFRP and D&D

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WFRP and D&D

Post by CapnZapp » Thu Nov 30, 2017 10:24 pm

(I really hope Dominic McDowall reads this before finalizing the design of his new game :) )

Fun fact: WFRP2 came out in 2004, just when Dungeons & Dragons had had its explosively successful 3rd edition boom (released in 2000).

The combat system is plainly inspired by D&D3, mainly by splitting the "full action" in two "half actions", and how you needed to take a full action and not move in order to utilize all your Attacks if you have more than one.

This is exactly how D&D3 works, where a "standard action" allows only one attack while the "full-round action attack" allows all your attacks (which, for a Fighter could be up to five) and also not move (more than a 5 ft step).

Why am I telling you this? Because WFRP4 would do well in drawing inspiration from its contemporary D&D edition. WFRP4 will come out in 2018, which is four years after D&D 5th edition - just like WFRP2 came out four years after D&D3!

Specifically, throw away that "full action" vestige of the d20 system! And instead allow you to move freely before, during and after your attack or attacks! Moving in combat is fun and exciting! It should be rewarded, not come at a cost!

Other massive improvement brought to the mainstream include replacing all the fiddly +1 and +2 bonuses (+5% and +10% in WFRP parlance) by one single unified mechanism: Advantage.

You either have advantage or you don't. (Goodbye +1 from this, +2 from that and another +1 from Uncle Bob!)

Advantage means you roll twice and take the best result. This means that the benefit of advantage lessens the better you are (just by pure statistical properties, no calculation needed!). In other words: it's a bonus that is big when you have a 50% risk of failing (and need the bonus). But the bonus is much smaller when you only have a 5% of risk of failing (and thus don't really need it).

In other words, it comes with built-in power balancing. If you're a minmaxer and you already have a great score, you gain comparatively less from advantage than a newb who didn't manage to create such a good score.

Doing away with static combats is my #1 wish for 4E.

Simplifying away all the +10%s and -10%s is my #2 wish for 4E.

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Re: WFRP and D&D

Post by Corvo » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:19 am

I agree wholeheartedly with CapnZapp.

I could add something to the list: do away with the calculation of the "degree of success". It's the "you made the roll by 30, your opponent by 28, so you win the opposed roll..."
Please, use Pendragon's opposed rolls system.
Pendragon showed the way more than 30 years ago: the fact that most games are still calculating degree of success through subtractions is just design inertia.

Edit: just to be clear, in Pendragon the degree of success is just the number you rolled, if it's inside your skill.
If your skill is 16 and you roll 12, then your degree of success is 12.
If your opponent with skill 14 rolls 7, then your 12 wins against the 7.
It's called "blackjack" system.
No need to calculate any difference.

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Re: WFRP and D&D

Post by Marchiavel » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:32 pm

Much more : don't throw your D10 for damage.

Just take the decade number, add it to the damage of your weapon, don't use the TB : that will be pretty the same damages, but with only one roll.

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Re: WFRP and D&D

Post by King Eirik » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:29 am

Hopefully we don't see too much from 5th Edition. Play it now and it's lame.
And I don't want to play a 5th Ed. clone on Old Wolrd ;)
But a do away with the calculation of successes would be great. It's not sooo difficult but in my experience it cost time and therefore distract from the play itself. And there are some player who miscalculate very often...
The King is dead! Long live the King!

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Re: WFRP and D&D

Post by No:12 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:21 am

I'd happily have a one roll system to determine success, then possibly extra hits with degrees of success (Black Crusade ish). Have dodge/parry/defensive action options give negative modifications to the hit roll, rather than a long series of exchanged rolls like in 2nd.

Would prefer to keep a dice roll for damage, but that's just cause I've always enjoyed the exploding damage threat. A taste thing I guess.

Totally unlikely, but on a wish list I'd also like low wounds/hit points, more frequent low level critical hits, and armour to be heavy, tiring, but more effective than TB so still a very much desired selection of kit. As I said, kind of unlikely...

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